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Are we getting it wrong?  Rating:  Rating
 
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 Posted: Sun Mar 9th, 2014 10:30 pm
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Skuimkop
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Best Catch: 25,4 kg baber / 11.73 kg Karp
Favorite Fishing Spot: Gariep Dam, Oranje rivier, Die Hoek, Bloemhof & Rondevlei
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Mana: 
Van tyd tot tyd gaan ek deur foto's van ander baber hengelaars asook van my eie om te sien of ek iets kan optel wat ons as hengelaars die edge kan gee om hulle te vang.

Well this time around I actually did pick up something that I find very interesting and might just help us not to loose those once in a lifetime monster, but I would like to see what you guys think.

Now what I picked up might change the way we rig big Carp baits as I now believe we rig these big Carp baits wrongly regarding our hook placements.

As I looked at photos of the monster Cats we caught on our Oranje river trip I spotted something Enigma actually mentioned before. Cats do seem to manipulate these big baits so they can swallow it head first. In the photo below (if you look closely) you can see that the Cat swallowed this big Carp bait (between 2 & 3 kilo's) head first.

Attachment: Riaan Karp.jpg (Downloaded 437 times)

Last edited on Sun Mar 9th, 2014 10:32 pm by Skuimkop

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 Posted: Sun Mar 9th, 2014 10:35 pm
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Skuimkop
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Equipment: 9.3 ft Jade Axe Catfish, PENN 500, 12 ft Vengeance, ...
Best Catch: 25,4 kg baber / 11.73 kg Karp
Favorite Fishing Spot: Gariep Dam, Oranje rivier, Die Hoek, Bloemhof & Rondevlei
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Mana: 
You can see the bait more clearly where I did cut of the tail end.

Attachment: Carp bait.jpg (Downloaded 433 times)

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 Posted: Sun Mar 9th, 2014 10:38 pm
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Skuimkop
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Equipment: 9.3 ft Jade Axe Catfish, PENN 500, 12 ft Vengeance, ...
Best Catch: 25,4 kg baber / 11.73 kg Karp
Favorite Fishing Spot: Gariep Dam, Oranje rivier, Die Hoek, Bloemhof & Rondevlei
Boat: Intex Mariner, 54 lbs Jarvis Walker.
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Mana: 
This is how I rig my big Carp baits so you can get a better idea of how I go about placing my hooks.

Attachment: Karp aas.JPG (Downloaded 432 times)

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 Posted: Sun Mar 9th, 2014 10:49 pm
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Skuimkop
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Equipment: 9.3 ft Jade Axe Catfish, PENN 500, 12 ft Vengeance, ...
Best Catch: 25,4 kg baber / 11.73 kg Karp
Favorite Fishing Spot: Gariep Dam, Oranje rivier, Die Hoek, Bloemhof & Rondevlei
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Mana: 
Now this is where the problem starts as I now believe we go about our hook placement the wrong way for these big baits.

The way I rig and I would think a lot of other anglers too would then make the hooks point the wrong way for the hook set. The hooks would now 'set' as the Cat swallows your bait and not when you try to secure the hook set. This might even prevent the Cat from swallowing your bait properly causing you to loose your Cat as you try to set the hook and the bait pops out.

Below is another pic I found where you can clearly see how the Cat swallow big Carp baits head first.

Attachment: f.jpg (Downloaded 429 times)

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 Posted: Sun Mar 9th, 2014 11:00 pm
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Skuimkop
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Equipment: 9.3 ft Jade Axe Catfish, PENN 500, 12 ft Vengeance, ...
Best Catch: 25,4 kg baber / 11.73 kg Karp
Favorite Fishing Spot: Gariep Dam, Oranje rivier, Die Hoek, Bloemhof & Rondevlei
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Mana: 
I still believe we can rig smaller baits we used to because big Cats will swallow these smaller baits anyway they pick these baits up but I now believe we must change the direction of the hooks on the bigger baits.

Here is some 'proof' that big Cats will swallow smaller Carp baits any direction they 'take' the bait. Follow the Youtube link below where you will see a Cat (although not our Sharptooth Cat) attack and swallow a smal Carp tail first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J2PXULjjb0

I freezed framed the clip where you can clearly see the small Carps lips between the Cat's lips because it happens so fast on the clip.

Attachment: CATFISH VS CARP FAST AND FURIOUS by CAT WORLD 005_azdfh0001.jpg (Downloaded 430 times)

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 Posted: Sun Mar 9th, 2014 11:06 pm
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Skuimkop
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Equipment: 9.3 ft Jade Axe Catfish, PENN 500, 12 ft Vengeance, ...
Best Catch: 25,4 kg baber / 11.73 kg Karp
Favorite Fishing Spot: Gariep Dam, Oranje rivier, Die Hoek, Bloemhof & Rondevlei
Boat: Intex Mariner, 54 lbs Jarvis Walker.
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Mana: 
With this Youtube link below you can see a Cat attacking and most probably swallowing a big Carp bait head first. Again I made a freeze frame for you guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F77abkoPHL0

Attachment: sadf.jpg (Downloaded 425 times)

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 Posted: Sun Mar 9th, 2014 11:14 pm
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Skuimkop
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Equipment: 9.3 ft Jade Axe Catfish, PENN 500, 12 ft Vengeance, ...
Best Catch: 25,4 kg baber / 11.73 kg Karp
Favorite Fishing Spot: Gariep Dam, Oranje rivier, Die Hoek, Bloemhof & Rondevlei
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Mana: 
And last but not the least another thing I picked up we can discuss further is that big Cats seem to descale Carp baits before they swallow these baits. This photo I took on my Gariep trip you can clearly see this.

Maybe we can descale our baits before we put them out to hasten the actual bite/swallow of the bait.

Attachment: Vis descalled.JPG (Downloaded 420 times)

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 Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2014 10:42 am
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AYOBA!
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Mana: 
:cong::::happyb:hhbbdd::woohoo(ni(ce(fish)(b_r_a_a_i:lol:1

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 Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2014 03:00 pm
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steelpulse007
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Mana: 
I think you're onto something very important Skuim. Looking at the way you hook the bait (as I assume most guys do - in terms of the direction the hook is facing) it may well just be in the opposite direction needed for best hookup when the fish is swimming away with the line while we're tightening the drag or striking. This would mean that when hooking a fish head or the full fish, the hooks would need to face downward toward it's tail for a more effective rig yes?

Im keen on trying out your theory, have you gotten around to testing it? I've lost quite a few fish that made big runs, in what seemed to be the bait simply getting pulled out of their mouths without a hookup, and I too am still trying to get a fullproof rig that will ensure a hookup at least 90% of the time.

As to the descaling of the fish, I'm just curious to know if they do it everytime, Perhaps it gives insight into why the fish would fist make a few short runs, before the big one.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2014 03:11 pm
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Fishpaste
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Mana: 
I have never caught one of these monsters but I have always been told by my grandad that you never strike a cat on the first run. You always have to let it stop first to swallow the bait. He was a firm believer that a cat would grab your bait and leg it somewhere away from other predators to swallow head first.

Now this is the thing - When you do rig 1/2 a carp one always cuts off the fins. Obviously this should not impare the cat from swallowing the bait any which way it likes, but there is no doubt that it is imprinted on their tiny brains that you swallow head first. It would obviously be easier as a fish is somewhat tappered from the head backwards.

I will almost put money on it that your hookset will double by simply swapping the hooks around!

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 Posted: Wed Mar 12th, 2014 10:27 am
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fishy_fishy
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Mana: 
Wow. Thank you Skuimkop for bringing this to our attention. Its definitely something to explore. Perhaps this theory can be tested at the Barbel Get Together that you were organising.

:sval:

I love the way that you have done your research on this topic. Well done. All that is left is to test the theory. In principle it sounds great.

Would it be possible to send a picture of how the hooks should be positioned on a carp bait based on your hypothesis?

I would like to suggest to the Moderator that we make this a sticky note.^^..

:f1shy

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 Posted: Wed Mar 12th, 2014 12:08 pm
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B-Fish
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Mana: 
Thank you Skuimkop,

This is an interesting subject that I have wanted to discuss for quite some time now.

In theory I agree with everything you said and have been trying for quite some time now to get a circle hook rig or any other rig for that matter that works as effective with a whole fish as with a head. I dont believe that a cat swallows a fish head well head first neccessarily as the size of the bait is small enough to swallow any which way and thus the reason a hook facing the same way will hookup more often than not.

A whole fish is something different because i have tried numerous rigging techniques without getting even close the the hookup ratio of just using a fishhead. The thing is the whole fish should get you a bigger fish on average and that is why i want to continue using it and I think you touched an interesting point with regards to the de scaling of the fish. I have never actually tried de scaling the bait before i use it this brings up an interesting question, do you think the cat de scales the fish first then eats it or does it de scale it in the process of eating it head first? If its the first one it would explain why most of my ''proud'' hooks get pushed flat so often on whole fish baits.

Then lastly I understand the notion of letting a cat run with a big bait as it needs time to swallow it but I dont like doing this as most of the venues I fish have lots of snags and these big cat know exactly where they are leaving you with a lost fish in any case. So for the difficult part do you have any ideas on a rig for a whole fish that can get effective hookups without letting the cat run too long with it?

^^..

Thaks again!::S

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 Posted: Wed Mar 12th, 2014 05:20 pm
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Wernerbloem
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Mana: 
Baie dankie Riaan dis verseker iets om aan te dink, soos ons almal maa n karkop op een manier opsit draai dit bietjie om en kyk wat is die resultate.::respekt:::respekt:::respekt:::respekt:::respekt:

Dis wat vir my die veskil is tussen 'n man soos jy wat verder dink as dit by hengel kom en manne wat net aansit cast en hoop vir die beste en daar na wonder hoekom die buurman so baie visse hook en hy so min.

Last edited on Wed Mar 12th, 2014 05:23 pm by Wernerbloem

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 Posted: Fri Mar 14th, 2014 09:35 am
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deisel
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Mana: 
80 percent of my big fish come from small baits rigged with a circle hook. 99 percentt are hook perfectly in the corner

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