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Quitting Smoking  Rating:  Rating
 
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 Posted: Wed May 30th, 2018 05:08 pm
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81st Post
trevour
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Mana: 
Pylstert you are right. Different brand, better tobacco, special paper, less nicotine, vaping (a subject that can get it's own essay on the different manufacturers and nicotines) Bottom line is we are addicts, and the biggest addict behaviour is justification.

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 Posted: Wed May 30th, 2018 08:05 pm
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82nd Post
Dr halibut hoffman
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Joined: Wed Sep 16th, 2009
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Haha believe it or not, the difference between first watch whiskey and a fine single malt is more than just hype.. Both will get you pissed, the next morning you'll realize though one poisoned you and one didn't. Nicotine does not give you cancer, it is all the chemicals liberated by the burning, adding hundreds of chemicals to the tobacco doesn't help things I'll guess..but ja.not justifying, I admit I am an addict, a happy addict none the less. I am all for harm reduction though.

https://www.swmintl.com/products/paper/reconstituted-tobacco
http://startobacco.biz/reconstituted-tobacco/
http://www.bat-science.com/groupms/sites/BAT_9GVJXS.nsf/vwPagesWebLive/DO7AXG65





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 Posted: Wed May 30th, 2018 10:34 pm
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Pylstert
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Joined: Fri May 4th, 2007
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LOL you puke and get a crap hangover whether you drink too much First Watch or Blue Label, the one you may have to drink slightly more than the other, but the result is the same. Same with tobacco and the disease it causes, its poisonous stuff no matter what, the nicotine is addictive and the tar carcinogenic, will never forget my grandmother with her lung cancer and emphysema.

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 Posted: Thu May 31st, 2018 04:19 am
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Serra Moz
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Joined: Sun Apr 15th, 2007
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Pylstert wrote:
LOL you puke and get a crap hangover whether you drink too much First Watch or Blue Label, the one you may have to drink slightly more than the other, but the result is the same. Same with tobacco and the disease it causes, its poisonous stuff no matter what, the nicotine is addictive and the tar carcinogenic, will never forget my grandmother with her lung cancer and emphysema.

lol....FirstWatch....the good old 3 days before payday drink when I was in the Navy....

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 Posted: Thu May 31st, 2018 10:06 am
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trevour
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Studies in the vape industry are starting to suggest that nicotine may be a cause of cancer all on it's own, in the way it effects our genetic makeup. I vape, and I justify and minimize pointing to the health benefits over smoking. After a long walk against addiction I believe hating the addiction itself is a much more powerful tool to stop, rather than focusing on the health benefits.

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 Posted: Thu May 31st, 2018 11:10 am
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JD
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FYI - Its World no tobacco day today

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_No_Tobacco_Day

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 Posted: Thu May 31st, 2018 11:57 am
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Dr halibut hoffman
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Haha...A world with no tobacco..well the thought is there..Imagine if tobacco was illegalized, it would be the new crack..ja tobacco is far too addictive to go away anytime during our civilization's time.

But ja if you smoke ciggies, look at the stuff under a microscope and realize how little is real leaf..these companies can be real deceiving if they want to. Still an addict but smoke far less now that I smoke real unadulterated twak..I'll probably succumb to cancer at some point, but having beaten 3 skin cancers already, I'm not going to stop fishing and being at the water :). All the studies have shown that tobacco is carcinogenic, and rate is relative to amount consumed..turning tobacco into a "crack" form makes people consume far more than they would upping the rate..it is what it is.. best case would be to quit..but till then, I like my tobacco like I like my steak (which also is carcinogenic), the real thing.

Pipe tobaccos are also heavily processed and flavoured BTW. And back to the paper, I knew someone once that imported ciggie papers for the local cigarette industry, he didn't smoke..said no-one would smoke ciggies if they knew how full of chemicals the paper was, nevermind the tobacco, he did like to party but no ciggies for him..food for thought..there is no government control as ciggies are deemed internationally to not be a food and drug product but an agricultural product. Anyway..You won't hear of any of it, as soon as a natural tobacco comes out, the big companies buy them out so that they can control what is put out during their marketing. This done to avoid what occured during the initial "american spirit" campaign in 80's I think, which was plastered all over huge billboards in large american cities asking consumers " do you know what is really in your cigarettes?".

Last edited on Thu May 31st, 2018 12:04 pm by Dr halibut hoffman

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 Posted: Fri Jun 1st, 2018 09:42 am
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88th Post
Malboer
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Update
So the decision was made. Damn its hard and since had a couple of smokes. 1 to 2 sticks a day from 2 packs.
I know if you quit you must quit completely or rather leave it.
Im still commited to quit but its harder second time around.
Maybe a good fishing session is all i need with no temptation to smoke.

Regards
Malboer

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 Posted: Fri Jun 1st, 2018 12:06 pm
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JD
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https://www.health24.com/Lifestyle/Stop-smoking/About-stop-smoking/heres-what-happens-to-your-body-when-you-quit-smoking-20180529

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 Posted: Fri Jun 1st, 2018 02:10 pm
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Pylstert
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Dr halibut hoffman wrote: Haha...A world with no tobacco..well the thought is there..Imagine if tobacco was illegalized, it would be the new crack..ja tobacco is far too addictive to go away anytime during our civilization's time.

But ja if you smoke ciggies, look at the stuff under a microscope and realize how little is real leaf..these companies can be real deceiving if they want to. Still an addict but smoke far less now that I smoke real unadulterated twak..I'll probably succumb to cancer at some point, but having beaten 3 skin cancers already, I'm not going to stop fishing and being at the water :). All the studies have shown that tobacco is carcinogenic, and rate is relative to amount consumed..turning tobacco into a "crack" form makes people consume far more than they would upping the rate..it is what it is.. best case would be to quit..but till then, I like my tobacco like I like my steak (which also is carcinogenic), the real thing.

Pipe tobaccos are also heavily processed and flavoured BTW. And back to the paper, I knew someone once that imported ciggie papers for the local cigarette industry, he didn't smoke..said no-one would smoke ciggies if they knew how full of chemicals the paper was, nevermind the tobacco, he did like to party but no ciggies for him..food for thought..there is no government control as ciggies are deemed internationally to not be a food and drug product but an agricultural product. Anyway..You won't hear of any of it, as soon as a natural tobacco comes out, the big companies buy them out so that they can control what is put out during their marketing. This done to avoid what occured during the initial "american spirit" campaign in 80's I think, which was plastered all over huge billboards in large american cities asking consumers " do you know what is really in your cigarettes?".
So now we have a conspiracy theory lol  - organic tobacco smoking is supposed to be good for you, but evil big cigarette companies make the tobacco super toxic so that it kills you faster and they then have an even bigger risk to get the crap sued out of them like they have in the past........it is a super k#####k addiction no matter how you try and dress it up. How would making it an agricultural product instead of a drug or god forbid food change that?  What about all the heart and artery problems it causes, you are not going to eliminate that by smoking supposed "pure tobacco" or it seems neither with vaping.  Watch out if you are getting a numb feeling in your lower legs - it is the tobacco ruining your veins and arteries.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 1st, 2018 09:49 pm
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Dr halibut hoffman
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Ja..rather second best, to quit and best case..don't start..

But..no conspiracy..history..The companies involved have been caught in conspiracy before, which lead to lawsuit settlements of 145 Billion dollars, history repeats itself..I am just of the next generations of suckers..If you read the links posted earlier you'll read about the reconstituted tobacco which is done purely for cost..more on that below..It seems I am in the majority that wrongly believe smoking natural and organic tobacco is not as bad for you, although I cannot find a study looking at health differences between the two specifically..Also was incorrect at the FDA in the states not regulating ciggies, they have been since june 2009 I found when read up, prior to that (and when I last read up about it) it was the US dept. of agriculture that regulated tobacco products.

"Smoking “natural” cigarettes is not a way to reduce harm, Pearson said, “inhaling burnt tobacco is harmful whether it’s organic, additive-free, or natural, it doesn’t matter.”

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-tobacco-additives-idUKKBN1542J0

Below a scientific paper on reconstituted tobacco that describes some manufacturing processes..

http://www.jocpr.com/articles/the-spray-coating-art-for-reconstituted-tobacco.pdf

“I always thought they were all pure tobacco”: American smokers' perceptions of “natural” cigarettes and tobacco industry advertising strategies

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2807204/

What causes the cancer..we do not know for sure, although there are a lot in the smoke and added to the leaf that do,it is not the nicotine that we do know..nicotine itself in small daily doses is a nootropic and not toxic.
Ecigs may cause cancer potentially but it has been shown in study that they are far safer and greatly reduce harm, in fact it is the flavourants that are the cancer culprits there.

Below some discussion on additives...

http://www.jeffreywigand.com/WHOFinal.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2040350/
http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/25/4/444
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2666880/Why-smoking-deadly-addictive-50-years-ago-Charity-reveals-underhand-tactics-tobacco-companies-use-make-sure-hooked.html

A complete list of the 599 disclosed additives..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_additives_in_cigarettes

Nicotine, addictive but not the health culprit.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-nicotine-all-bad/

With no pyrolysis, vaping is a much healthier option. Not healthy in the least but far healthier than smoking ciggies.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2017/jan/02/ill-say-it-again-e-cigarettes-are-still-far-safer-than-smoking

The additives in ciggies are toxic anyway you look at it, but smoking tobacco is toxic in itself so the companies don't seem to care to make them more toxic..The ammonia and freebase nicotine is no conspiracy, but fact, read up on it..Not to kill you quicker, but to make you crave and smoke more and more frequently and buy more ciggies. That is a fact. About the marketing campaigns and buy out of small firms to control what is said in advertising, read up about Santa fe natural tobacco company and their buyout by Reynolds american.

Below the story on that company from Bloomberg.

"It’s been well-established that the industry turned to additives such as ammonia and urea to foster addiction, including by hastening the delivery of nicotine to the brain. These chemicals increase what’s called freebase nicotine, the most potent form. But the scientific community mostly agrees that it’s the poison in the smoke that kills. “Cigarette smoking has been causing lung cancer and many other diseases since the early 1900s, long before the heavy use by the industry of cigarette additives,” said James Pankow, a professor of chemistry and engineering at Portland State University. (He found high freebase nicotine readings in Natural American Spirit cigarettes; lawyers in the class-action complaint jumped on this, citing it as a sign the cigarettes might contain stealth additives. Pankow pointed out to me that freebase nicotine content can also go up if air-cured leaves are used in the blend.)"

"The late ’80s were a good time to sell a cigarette by questioning just what was in cigarettes. In 1988 the Surgeon General deemed nicotine to be as addictive as heroin and cocaine, and a lethal habit. In 1994 congressional hearings on the dangers of tobacco, led by California Democratic Representative Henry Waxman, produced the unforgettable image of all seven heads of the major tobacco companies attesting that nicotine wasn’t addictive. Big Tobacco was finally made to release a list of the 599 additives in their products."

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-natural-american-spirit-cigarettes/

But ja best not to start..and also no research to show how much harm the additives and paper additives cause as opposed to organic tobacco, oh well at least my tobacco I smoke does not kill the birds and bees on the farms with no pesticides, even if gets me..organic tobacco will still have the radiation in, which is maybe a large part of the cancer but jury still out..That said, cancer rates and chronic pulmonary disease of which pylstert speaks in smokers are higher now than smokers in the 60's and smokers nowadays smoke less daily on average..so even though I am misled to think that organic natural smoke is safer than the modern highly processed and engineered nicotine delivery device we call ciggies, it may well be slightly safer though..there is no study/data. But it is far from safe..I freely admit that.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21956761
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8850254

Ciggies a real bad for you..dont start kids!

Last edited on Sat Jun 2nd, 2018 12:11 am by Dr halibut hoffman

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 Posted: Fri Jun 1st, 2018 10:32 pm
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Dr halibut hoffman
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An open minded article looking at smoking, quitting, health dangers and modern ciggies as opposed to the days before processing...Cancer rates double now for certain cancers to before and disease of the arteries higher even though people are smoking less? Logically the processing would play a role.

"It may be riskier for your lungs to smoke cigarettes today than it was a few decades ago, at least in the United States, according to new research that blames changes in cigarette design for fueling a certain type of lung cancer. Up to half of U.S. lung cancer cases may be due to those changes.

Smokers once tended to get a form of lung cancer called squamous cell carcinoma, which strikes cells in larger air tubes. Then doctors noticed a jump in adenocarcinoma, which grows in small air sacs far deeper in the lung.

Initial studies blamed the introduction of filtered, lower-tar cigarettes. When smokers switched, they began inhaling more deeply to get their nicotine jolt, pushing the smoke deeper than before.

The new study found an additional wrinkle to the problem -- the increase in a kind of lung tumor called adenocarcinoma was higher in the U.S. than in Australia, even though both switched to lower-tar cigarettes around the same time. The most likely explanation is a change in the cigarette; cigarettes sold in Australia contain lower levels of nitrosamines, a known carcinogen, than those sold in the U.S.

Dr. Mercola's Comments:

Nearly 20 percent of U.S. adults, or over 43 million people, currently smoke cigarettes, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

They credit smoking as the leading preventable cause of death in the United States, where it is responsible for about one out of every five deaths each year, for a total of about 443,000 deaths.

Personally I would stop short of calling cigarettes the leading cause of preventable death -- I believe eating sugar and struggling with unresolved emotional traumas are far more significant contributors -- but I certainly would not discount the fact that smoking is dangerous for your health and should be avoided.

This seems to be particularly true now, as this recent study suggests changes in cigarette design, namely those made to produce lower-tar cigarettes, have increased levels of nitrosamines in cigarettes.

Nitrosamines are a chemical byproduct of tobacco processing, and they’re known to cause cancer. Levels vary significantly in part due to curing practices. In Australia, for instance, cigarettes contain just 20 percent of the nitrosamine content of U.S. cigarettes.

Perhaps as a result, U.S. cases of adenocarcinoma, a type of lung cancer that grows in small air sacs deep in your lung, have been rising more so than in Australia. Researchers say adenocarcinoma makes up 65 percent to 70 percent of newly occurring U.S. lung cancer cases, but only up to 40 percent of Australia's lung cancer.

In fact, up to half of U.S. lung cancer cases may be due to those design changes, and the resulting increase in nitrosamines, according to researcher Dr. David Burns of the University of California, San Diego.

An Overview of the Health Risks of Smoking

Nitrosamines are just one toxic byproduct of smoking; cigarettes actually contain over 4,000 different chemicals in all, and all of them have varying degrees of toxicity.

And by now most everyone knows that smoking can increase your risk of cancer, heart disease, and other serious diseases. But looking at it from a different angle, the impact it can have on an individual life, may put this habit into a different perspective. According to the CDC:

• Smokers die an average of 13-14 years earlier than nonsmokers.
• Smoking increases the length of time people live with a disability by about two years.
• For every person who dies of a smoking-related disease, 20 more people suffer with at least one serious illness from smoking.

The American Cancer Society even reports that smoking cigarettes kills more Americans than alcohol, car accidents, suicide, AIDS, homicide, and illegal drugs combined, while other research has shown that just by smoking one pack of cigarettes:

• A smoker's life is cut short by two hours
• Men lose a total of 4.4 years of their life
• Women lose a total of 2.4 years of their life

There are also economic factors to consider. Annually, cigarette smoking costs more than $193 billion ($97 billion in lost productivity and $96 billion in health care expenditures), according to the CDC’s November 2008 Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

These risks have not gone unnoticed, as 70 percent of smokers say they want to quit completely, while more than 40 percent try to quit each year. Ideally, the best way to quit smoking is to never start in the first place. Unfortunately, however, the CDC reports that 1,100 kids under 18 become regular smokers every day.

Help for Those Trying to Quit

Quitting smoking is a wise choice for your health. However, if you are facing other health challenges, are not eating healthy and are otherwise not following a healthy lifestyle, I highly suggest you address these latter issues FIRST.

There are two major reasons for this. One, if you attempt to quit smoking while you’re still eating an unhealthy diet, you will likely be tempted to replace the cigarettes with some other “reward.” And the reward often ends up being junk food.

As I often say, I believe one French fry is worse for you than one cigarette, so swapping your pack a day for an extra value meal a day is NOT a good swap as this will often lead to weight gain and other health issues.

A study conducted back in 2001 even found that obesity was associated with higher rates of chronic medical problems and a poorer quality of life than smoking. So it’s absolutely essential that you are devoted to eating healthy before you give up smoking. Otherwise you may simply trade smoking for overeating, or eating too much sugar and fast food, leading to obesity and all of its related problems.

At the same time, many people become depressed when they quit smoking, and this makes it very difficult to make major dietary changes and improvements.

The second reason for getting healthy before you quit smoking is that your new healthy lifestyle will probably push you to naturally quit.

There’s something about eating healthy and exercising that synergistically helps to resolve the underlying anxiety that many people choose to resolve with smoking. And I have found that if a person is eating the right foods and exercising it is very unusual for them to remain a smoker.

Kicking the Smoking Habit

So, the first thing to do is to get started eating right and exercising. You can read my entire program on how to get healthy in Take Control of Your Health. At the same time, tend to the emotional reasons why you’re smoking or not eating right by using an emotional tapping technique that will help to clear out emotional blockages from your system, thus restoring your mind and body's balance.

Once you’ve accomplished these lifestyle changes, then you can start to think about kicking the smoking habit. By the way, when you do, going “cold turkey” is the best approach. Studies have shown that simply cutting back on how much you smoke does nothing to lower your cancer risk.

So once you decide to quit, complete abstinence appears to be the most effective strategy"

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/06/02/Cigarettes-Are-Deadlier-Than-They-Used-to-Be.aspx

But all the more reason to quit or not start..

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 Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2018 12:52 pm
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93rd Post
Moztoppie
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First, Congratulations Malboer, Cold turkey is surely the hardest way to quit...But possible...Strongs !!

I thought I would never be able to quit and a never wanted to quit...I really enjoyed my cigarette even on the Kayak I loved to drift and have a nice smoke...

Until I found myself coughing with the slightest effort..that dreadful morning smokers cough sounding like Mount Edna erupting forced me to find medical advice..

X Rays confirmed COPD and for me a "Healthy" 57 year old a devastating blow...That vision of myself launching my Kayak with an oxygen bottle attached made me beg for the Champix prescription...

No need to say it worked for me and although I am battling to get "Fit" it is amazing how good it feels...

Truly.. better smell, Taste and blood flow to the necessary parts is not a myth..it is a reality..

;)

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 Posted: Sun Jun 3rd, 2018 03:50 pm
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94th Post
gethy
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Joined: Sun Aug 24th, 2014
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Mana: 
since this is essentially about addiction, here's something interesting i found on YouTube

(not sure if posted already)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8L-0nSYzg


Last edited on Sun Jun 3rd, 2018 03:50 pm by gethy

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 Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2018 12:33 pm
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95th Post
RVL
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Joined: Wed Feb 29th, 2012
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it has now been 5 months since my last cigarette.
:):):)

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 Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2018 01:54 pm
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JD
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RVL wrote:
it has now been 5 months since my last cigarette.
:):):)


Well done, I'm sure by now it's a permanent change.
Food taste better, breathing is easier and you don't smell like an ashtray ;)

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 Posted: Fri Jul 6th, 2018 04:15 pm
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Edgy
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This coming Sunday marks 12 weeks smoke free for me which is the longest Ive ever managed and I feel that this time im finally done!! I started at 16 and now almost 51 so enoughs enough! Ive always maintained my fitness and cycled for many years and Im seriously hoping Ive not incurred any permanent damage.
Strangely enough the last 3 months Ive been snottier and head cold'ish than ever before...my pharmacist reckons this is because the smoking always took care of any bactaria and my body now needs to build its immunity up again??

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 Posted: Fri Jul 6th, 2018 05:23 pm
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98th Post
RVL
Member


Joined: Wed Feb 29th, 2012
Location: Benoni, South Africa
Posts: 14
Equipment: .............
Best Catch: 9.7kg Carp, ±18 kg barbel
Favorite Fishing Spot: ...............
Boat: sportmans cabin / prestige duck
Club: AHV die vereeniging
Status: 
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Mana: 
yip that is true,, I am still suffering a bit,, Sinus,,, head cold stuffy,,,chest these are all there worse than ever but your system will get rid of all the toxins eventually...
at least now we can see how that crap really affected us without us even knowing about it !!

Well done for getting this far, !!!

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