Is there such a thing as a 'magic bait' that outfishes all other baits?

Hey okes

I was just wondering about fishing and baits and if there is such a thing as a magic bait that will outfish all other baits. We have all been fishing when there is one or type of bait that seems to go more often that all others but can this happen consistently and what would some of these baits be/include? I would like to hear your thoughts?

A while ago BAMBI and friends did a comparision of boilies at their dam with very interesting results. Some baits also seem to catch more while other baits seem to catch fewer but bigger fish- what have been your experiences?

thanks
Jonathan

Hi Jonathan,

There is no such thing as a maic bait...however, there are definitely baits more effective than others!

I am, by choice, pretty much a boilies only angler, I have for the last six years been formulating and making my own baits...they are better than 99% of what is commercially available, here or internationally. The point I am trying to make is that the boilie is probably as close as we will ever get to the perfect bait and the reason that I say this is because they are so versatile. In my opinion you can customise a boilie to achieve so many different things, never mind the nutritional aspect , something you will never get out of any particle or artificial bait.

I am also not disregarding the fact that carp are curious creatures and will pick up most things once, I am talking about catching carp consistently.

I am not saying that particle baits are not effective, they certainly are, but by their nature there are limits to what you can do with them. I will choose a boilie of my own formulation any day over a particle bait.

Please remember that this thread was about magic baits and not a boilies vs particles debate...

Tigernut.

A Boilie. For the reasons that Stiff Rig mentioned above.

Depends what you mean by "Magic Baits". In my opinion some baits can definately be qualified as magic - they consistently produce and keep on producing. Even flavours can be magic. Some venues have a weak spot for a certain combination and once you figure that out that combination can be magic.

For Carp the world Wide dead sure bait for Carp and Big carp are Boilies.

The problem is that 90% of Carpers in RSA either don't know what a feeding program for boilies is or don't take the time and trouble to make boilies for feeding and hook baits.

The retailers are exploiting this by jumping on the band wagon and trying to convince the angling Public that Tigernuts are the magic for Specimen Angling. In my opinion it's the easy way out, it's a good bait that takes some soaking and boiling, toss it in the dam and fish on it.

We have proven over and over at competition Carp Angling that Boilies outfish Tigers and or other particles time after time. I have imported Tigers and buy them at less than a quarter of the price the angler pays.

Same with good boilie sessions at Tzaneen, Klaserie and Doorndraai always outfishing particles.

The benefits to the quality of fish is also very apparent with and well identified by many managed fisheries where particle feeding is banned (here and in many European waters)

Boilies can be produced in a variety of nutrition levels of which the lowest is higher than any nutritional value of any particle and they work in any water that holds carp anywhere in the world.

Boiles - Best for fish and best for Fishing

I love using boilies,but using it at a venue that has never seen a boilie can leave you blanking.

Tigernuts never let me down,even when used where carp has never seen it before.Is that not magic?

I believe S.A. Is still way behind european waters when it comes to boilies.New born carp in france and surrounding countries will munch on boilies as soon as they are able to pick it up.Boilies are and were a big part of their diet for many years and I feel like its almost instinctive for the fish there to go for it.(Almost like a dog not knowing how to hunt as it was bred for domestic purpose and cats instinct to hunt comes naturally.

I agree boilies are the way forward and the best for carp's growth and well being,but as a magic bait,through experience,I have to insist that here in S.A.waters over all,tigernuts still have the edge,even deadlier with hemp.

I often fish 2 rods particle,2 rods boilie(top brands available)particles still out fish boilies by far at most waters.And its the same with most people I know.

In the U.K.its the other way around,where carp are more used to boilies by now.Most of the big carp come out on boilies.As far as I know hennie du preeze's "s.a.record"and M.L."S.A.record"both caught on particles.

No hard feelings guys,just sharing my honest experiences. No better feeling than,making your own boilies from scratch and getting good results on them.

Tigernuts are just as foreign as Boilies are to our wters but we throw so many tons of them in that the fish quickly learn to eat them

If you fish as many kg of boilies as you do tigers then you will catch more carp on boilies than you do on tigers.

Examples, session in competition at Arabie on closed waters of DWAF, started feeding with dry deed with chopped particles, followed by 20kg 10mm boilies followed by mix of 16, 18 and 20mm.

Water was previous unfished, 8 hours into the session no fish were caught on anything other than Boilies and it wasn't long till we were averaging 4kg a fish and in no time were over 1400kg on 3 pegs (48 hours) We then fished the swims a few weeks later with a boat to help get fish past the snags and landed 3 fish over 14kg in a single session. Same thing in the Selati river in Phalaborwa, same thing in many spots on the Vaal river.

1kg of boilies and 100kg of particles then for sure you'll not catch on boilies. 50kg particles to create a bed and 50kg of boilies then you'll catch fish on boilies. Any dam or farm dam in Africa can be fished with boilies and produce results but fishing 5kg of boilies in a 72 hour session sin't fishing boilies

That's fishing for you...

I have had the opposite affect at most venues I fish.I have to add that I never mix boilies with particles for feeding,I'll only use boilie as hook bait,feeding boilies and the same with particles.That way its easy for me to conclude what works best,than to put boilies,particles,feeding balls etc in one area.How will I know which of the above mentioned draw the fish to my hookbait?

I have fished one specific dam specimen for more than 4 years now,I know that no one ever fished the venue with particles before me as nobody was allowed to fish there.


First session I had at the venue,no pre feeding,pb on particles.Since then,I have used boilies as well,numerous top brands with best results on berkley tuna boilies,but results from boilies there don't come close to what I get on particles.

I believe the natural sweetness tigernuts contain will bring back the carp every time and the look and size of them and other particles are more familiar to carp,looking more natural compared to the carp's normal diet.

I have to wonder what exactly carp get used to,is it more,the look of a boilie or the nutritional value and taste of a boilie.With so many different flavoured boilies on the market,all different recipes,will a badly maid boilie with little nutrition,once picked up and rejected,not leave that fish thinking twice next time?

To get back to the point...

How do we describe a magic bait?
I feel that a boilie can be a magic bait,only if that specific boilie performs excellent at any venue any time of the year and as far as I know there is no boilie like that.Tigernuts works very well any time any where.

I agree that a boilie might work better than a tiger on a specific day,but wich boilie?The wrong boilie won't get you a single beep.So,how can a "boilie"in general be a magic bait?It can only become that if you have the right boilie for that venue at that time.Meaning,you have the magic bait for that day,but then even a earthworm can become the magic bait for that day.
You can't go wrong with tigernuts,guaranteed results,any where,always.My magic bait.

Stiff=Rig said: Please remember that this thread was about magic baits and not a boilies vs particles debate...

I believe that the boillie/tigernut/artificail bait, that catches the R1000000 Tagged Carp should be classified as THE MAGIC BAIT, and it would def have a place in my trophy case!:hyst::hyst::hyst::hyst:

 

My opinion is that both are good but boilies prevail on a worlwide stage.

I always stage the feeding strategy beginning the feeding with particles then introducing boilies once the fish are in the swim.

Do not make the mistake in wild waters to feed boilies in isolation.

Do not feed R10/kg boilies and fish R150/kg hookbaits.

BTW how much you paying per kg for tigers now?

It's all a lot of personal preference. I prefer live blacktail as the best all round shark bait where Trophy will say blacktail is useless as bait and Mackerel is tops and I am guaranteed a blank on a mackerel.

The Best Bait for any form of Fishing is the ONE you have the MOST CONFIDENCE IN

My opinion is that both are good but boilies prevail on a worlwide stage.

I always stage the feeding strategy beginning the feeding with particles then introducing boilies once the fish are in the swim.

Do not make the mistake in wild waters to feed boilies in isolation.

Do not feed R10/kg boilies and fish R150/kg hookbaits.

BTW how much you paying per kg for tigers now?

It's all a lot of personal preference. I prefer live blacktail as the best all round shark bait where Trophy will say blacktail is useless as bait and Mackerel is tops and I am guaranteed a blank on a mackerel.

The Best Bait for any form of Fishing is the ONE you have the MOST CONFIDENCE IN

hi guys

thank you for all your responses--this has been a very interesting thread! i have been so busy i have not had a chance to come back to it for the last week

i def agree with carpoholic- the tiger is a 'magic' bait. there is something in the tiger that carp find addictive and there have been instances in europe where carp will eat tigers until they start losing weight. as the carp sh!ts out large parts of the tiger, which other carp eat, the tiger is a bait which can convert a large water to it without having to apply tonnes. this fact, the somewhat 'addictive' nature of tigers and that they dont catch as many barbel as maize i believe has lead to the tigers popularity in SA.

Onto bigger fish; i agree with enigma that the average size of fish is consistantly bigger when fishing with boilies over all particles including tigers. is that not what we got into specimen for- to catch bigger fish? so there is def a case to be made for using boilies when possible. even martin louw who does 99% of his fishing with tigers believes for bigger fish it is better to use boilies than tigers.

with boilies one has the ability to include all sorts of 'funny' magic ingrediants in them which cannot be included in particles--things like green lipped mussel extract, n butyric acid, blood worm extract, vitamins, betaine and other lesser know but more effective feeding stimulants, robin red, probiotics living organisms etc etc. the list is endless and these ingrediants can make a massive difference to catch rates...

The recipe for the best bait is pretty simple really..

its called
















































Location...

in terms of boilies, the greatest boilie of all time in the UK and Europe is MAINLINE'S "The Cell"- what makes it so great? i have no idea--it is not a fishmeal, milk protein or birdseed boilie- so what is it then? if anyone knows then they are not saying ... what it has done tho is torn tough waters apart and accounted for many of the biggest fish

it has now been in SA for the last 2 months. being the kind of guy who believes that talk is cheap (and plentiful in fishing circles) and money buys whisky i was very keen to see if the Cell would live up to its hype and deliver the goods here in SA or was it just marketing rubbish.

now those that know me will tell you that being a good fisherman and trustworthy of other peoples secrets are very important to me so i can only share some of the results and pics that have been sent to me of other anglers results of the Cell with permission from the fisherman involved. a bg thank you to those anglers! the results in various waters in all parts of the country have been phenomenal.

it truly is a wonderbait!

attached see below
From: Peet Bezuidenhout (PJ) ][mailto:BezuiPJ1@telkom.co.za]
Sent: 02 July 2012 08:41 AM
To: TackleTart (tackletartsa@gmail.com)
Subject: Doilies
 
Hi Jonathan,
 
Very impressed with the cell boilie.It was a very quiet and dead weekend at *****lake, not many fish came out except for me and my son who had 5 runs,(ALL ON CELL),10kg,10.5kg,4.5kg,5kg and one hook pull, no feed only single ground bait with a few scatterings of cell boilies.I will definitely use again.
 
Regards
Peet
From: Peet Bezuidenhout (PJ) ][mailto:BezuiPJ1@telkom.co.za]
Sent: 16 July 2012 07:00 AM
To: TackleTart
Subject: RE:
 
Hi Jonathan,
 
I am back,have been for a work course last week.I also did some fishing the past weekend and must tel you it was F cold.I went Friday
Afternoon to ****and after ten minutes of fishing landed a 6.5 common on cell,I couldn’t believe my eyes.


From: Watkins, Christi [mailto:christi.watkins@hp.com]
Sent: 06 July 2012 09:18 AM
To: TackleTart (tackletartsa@gmail.com)
Subject: Emailing: DSCF0154.jpg, DSCF0133.jpg


Hi J,
 
Hope you're well, ready for that long session you've been hoping for?
 
I just got back from a 24 hour session. In that time we managed 7 fish between the 2 of us. Not bad going for middle of winter I reckon. All fish fell to the cell baits
 
Attached pics of the 2 biggest for the session, both at 13.5 kg.
 
Have a good one!
Chris

hahaha good (and unexpected) answer from the bait pro Werner

 they say that is the secret to business too ...but they normally say location location and looooocation .

if that was all there was to it then a lot of us would be rich

so guys tell us where do you sit on the Cell debate-- BS or brilliant?

I would also add that it was in the winners bait bag at the recent bass o mania comp

Now now lets calm down..Only stating facts, you cant catch what is not there... Simple rule but the one rule that always works..

I have done some research about the cell, and I have a couple of knowledgeable friends in the bait world in Europe.

There is a very specific ingredient in cell that makes it so effective, and actually gives cell its name.

I have 2kg of it sitting at home, havent had a chance to try it in mixes yet, but I will definatley give it a try sometime soon.

Only problem is you need to buy this per tonne, and only one company in the world manufactures this product.

Bait can only do that much for you, the rest is up to you..

I can't even begin to explain how much I agree with Enigma, there are so many people that claim that they fish boilies, but all they really do is buy a 1kg packet and fish that packet for the next couple of months.

You can't compare that to maize where you feed 10000 maize pieces vs 10 boilies, they are obviously going to eat more maize.

Cost is the biggest issue here. Boilies are more expensive than particles, but if you do a proper feeding program for 4 months you will have WAY better results compared to feeding particles.

How many times ahve you dropped a line in an area you think fish should be and you get a run within 10min? I bet you it was not the bait that worked so well, it was just location.

renrew wrote:

Now now lets calm down..Only stating facts, you cant catch what is not there... Simple rule but the one rule that always works..

I have done some research about the cell, and I have a couple of knowledgeable friends in the bait world in Europe.

There is a very specific ingredient in cell that makes it so effective, and actually gives cell its name.

I have 2kg of it sitting at home, havent had a chance to try it in mixes yet, but I will definatley give it a try sometime soon.

Only problem is you need to buy this per tonne, and only one company in the world manufactures this product.

Bait can only do that much for you, the rest is up to you..

I can't even begin to explain how much I agree with Enigma, there are so many people that claim that they fish boilies, but all they really do is buy a 1kg packet and fish that packet for the next couple of months.

You can't compare that to maize where you feed 10000 maize pieces vs 10 boilies, they are obviously going to eat more maize.

Cost is the biggest issue here. Boilies are more expensive than particles, but if you do a proper feeding program for 4 months you will have WAY better results compared to feeding particles.

How many times ahve you dropped a line in an area you think fish should be and you get a run within 10min? I bet you it was not the bait that worked so well, it was just location.

Click to expand...

((goodp_


 

((goodp_((goodp_ @renrew

Good posts guys, very interesting. I also agree with Enigma and renrew, but I also think tigernuts are abit special. Yes its not a boilie, but I've had fish on jusabout every dam I've fished with it, even the dams where ppl say tigernuts dont work.

With regards to boilies, the Cell has a huge reputation in the UK and even europe. I think its success is based on firstly the amount of bait that goes into the lakes here, and as Enigma also mentioned, if you put alot of a certain bait in a dam, the fish will soon get on it and you will be catching. But i believe the second part, of why a bait is successful is that its acceptable to the carp and offers te carp something nutritionally. Like some other good baits, the Cell keeps catching, so there must be some good in it for the carp not to go off it.