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SEALINE - South African Angling and Boating Community > General Angling Topics > Saltwater Fishing > DRAG, PULLING LOADS, EFFECT OF STRAIGHT OR HIGH STICK


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DRAG, PULLING LOADS, EFFECT OF STRAIGHT OR HIGH STICK  Rating:  Rating
 
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 Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2012 01:45 pm
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Def-e-nition
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Dave Batista wrote: @ Enigma interesting facts but it still baffels me how someone can cast a 12oz with a 1.8mm wind-on and 0.6mm mainline 180m.

:doh Dave - did you Know i have a 5 Inch tongue and i can breathe Through my ears ?

That's just a claim , but it's My claim  ., i don't Necessarily have to base my claim , on anything Factual , see ? .....

It's purely his own Personal opinion , and Enigma wuz 'avin a go at him without making it Obvious !

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 Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2012 01:48 pm
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aquadementia
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I think more like 180 feet :)

In my days working at a tackle shop I met similar super-men... one who casts 200m like its nothing and another who casts 150m with 1mm mainline!!!

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 Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2012 05:09 pm
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wortel
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aquadementia wrote:

obviously a typo, should read 6.7kg



Well not only am I not good in physics, but apparently my comprehension skills as well as my powers of deductability suck as well!

Attachment: 3.jpg (Downloaded 794 times)

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 Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2012 05:20 pm
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boepens
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I've always said when pulling a big fish 45degree rod angle means less on u and more on the fish

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 Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2012 05:35 pm
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Koper
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LOL

Just thinking back about some of the straight stick arguments there was on SL over the years!

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 Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2012 07:35 pm
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tuna
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Def-e-nition wrote: Dave Batista wrote: @ Enigma interesting facts but it still baffels me how someone can cast a 12oz with a 1.8mm wind-on and 0.6mm mainline 180m.

:doh Dave - did you Know i have a 5 Inch tongue and i can breathe Through my ears ?

That's just a claim , but it's My claim  ., i don't Necessarily have to base my claim , on anything Factual , see ? .....

It's purely his own Personal opinion , and Enigma wuz 'avin a go at him without making it Obvious !

@ def, see SIZE does matter

Enigma thanks for a ll the info and the recearch, i rate this as on of the most informative post on sealine since i have been on here, surely it kills some of the arguments the guys from Macassor have been arguining over the years on here

Like you said you, you get some super human power anglers but most guys dont know what they talking about till you actaully go and study the stuff up

Great post:ssswim:

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 Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2012 09:21 pm
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FLUKE
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Good Post, and it confirms what my arms were telling me at the end of a few long fights LOL
Thanks For the effort.

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 Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2012 11:35 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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baie goeie post.

nou sal die mense verstaan hoekom n 400/3 beter op jou lyf is as n 400/ 5 purglass.

like my 400/3 to death.

that said, in essence, using 0.55mm line or 40lb line, there is now way on earth that one is able to break the line, using the rod.

maar nou ja, ek bly nou eerder stil, voordat ek dalk die pad byster raak.

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 Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2012 11:47 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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boepens wrote: I've always said when pulling a big fish 45degree rod angle means less on u and more on the fish
it's the other way around, straight sticking, more on the fish less on the angler. the higher the rod is lifted, the more force exerted on the angler

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 Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2012 11:55 pm
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Enigma
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sea sick wrote:
boepens wrote: I've always said when pulling a big fish 45degree rod angle means less on u and more on the fish
it's the other way around, straight sticking, more on the fish less on the angler. the higher the rod is lifted, the more force exerted on the angler


Go read the results again.

The higher the rod the more on the fish but also more on the angler.

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 Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2012 12:41 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Enigma wrote: STRAIGHT STICK - HIGH STICK

Set the drag on the reel to release line at 5.5kg

Straight stick and the reel releases line at 5.5kg

Lift it to 60 degrees and it increases the drag to 6.73kg before line is release. (20% increase)

Load on angler in Straight stick 5.5kg but at 60 degrees it goes over 25kg


it does not make sense at all.

when a drag is set to 5kg it is set and will allow line off the reel when 5kg is set. nomatter what is done, at 5kg the line will peel from the reel.

the only aspect that i can think of, is with the rod in a high position, the resistance, through the eyes could have a effect, but still when line is pulled from the reel, just after the reel, before the rod guides, it will measure 5kg.

seems like we neede roller guides

will have to do some tests.

yes, the higher the rod, the more force is exerted on the angler.

think of it as leverage effect, the longer the pole, the more you get screwed. the shorter the pole, the less you get screwed.

 

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 Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2012 04:35 am
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boepens
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Enigma wrote:
sea sick wrote:
boepens wrote: I've always said when pulling a big fish 45degree rod angle means less on u and more on the fish
it's the other way around, straight sticking, more on the fish less on the angler. the higher the rod is lifted, the more force exerted on the angler


Go read the results again.

The higher the rod the more on the fish but also more on the angler.


Straight sticking is not allowed for me so that don't count
What I'm saying is with ur rod at 45deg and 70deg say for example. U r actually pulling harder on the fish at 45deg than 70deg
Yes line will release easier from the spool but u can use a higher drag setting because ur able to apply more pressure for longer
Remember I said pulling a big fish !

I'm sommer gonna test later to see. Scale on end of line and pullllll :fbash:fbash:fbash

Last edited on Sun Jun 24th, 2012 04:41 am by boepens

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 Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2012 06:56 am
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Koper
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Not to hi-jack Craigs thread here, but I found these threads that ties in nicely with Craigs one.

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=28828&forum_id=1

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=40895&forum_id=1

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=22806&forum_id=1

Some interesting reading.

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 Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2012 07:35 am
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willem wikkel spies
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if i may add

tests conducted, and is written on this forum somewhere.

but for ease, i saved the webpage from outddor pages.

look here:

http://www.outdoorpages.co.za/Forum/forumthread.asp?ShowAll=&SectionID=1&ID=12337&DisciplineID=4&Section=FISHING&Description=ROCK+%26+SURF

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 Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2012 08:01 am
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Enigma
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Guys please don't let this thread drif off from what it is and what it started off as.

Most of the other threads are theories and not quantified. The Outdoorpages thread although quantified deals with a completely different subect and that is pulling power of the rod, nowhere discussed or any point of discussion on this thread.

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 Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2012 08:11 am
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Enigma
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The angular change of direction of the line from straight stick to rod held high is the result of the increase in measured drag

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 Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2012 08:59 am
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Enigma
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I haven't yet but will measure the load bearing differences on the fulcrum point between very stiff or very soft rods.

These result I'll post at some time in the week.

What I will add as a matter of my personal opinion, the following:

1. You can only pull as hard as your reel's drag is set so if you have a pole or a piece of liquorice you can only pull to what your drag is set.

2. The stiffer the rod the quicker you reach drag release point when pulling so less work for you.

3. You get differing materials and construction techniques leading to rigidity in fishing rods so compare apples with apples there.

Assuming we are talking R&S rods only and modern techniques in rod blank building then stiffness is determined largely (not solely) by the modulus used.

4. As a rod builder and designer we look at the memory of the blank and not how stiff it is to pull with. The higher the modulus is the faster the memory of the blank is. So yes it is stiff but wants to return to it's resting position (straight) as quickly as possible. That's why a caster with the right timing will cast a rod of higher modulus further, not because it is stiffer but because recovery/memory so much faster and stronger.

5. Now to add to this each angler's style differs. Bigger total casting weight require lower modulus and fixed spool requires different loading mechanics so that's why there isn't 1 perfect 6oz rod.

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 Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2012 12:53 pm
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Enigma
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To standardise we'll use a reel preset to 6kg drag (checked before each test).

We'll measure the load at the anglers, typical grip posisiton to the maximum load experienced on 6kg (we'll use the Bow scale which record the max load and keep it on the screen)

SeaGrand II. 4-6oz 4.2m

Seagrand II. 6-8oz 4-2m

Shark Extreme Heavy 3.85m

Rugged Special 10z 4m

Purglas 350/6

Purglas 400/4 fiberglass

PE8 7'6" Popping Rod

5' 30lbs boat rod

V Max 4 1-3oz rod

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 Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2012 02:23 pm
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Cowboy
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thanks for the very interesting post Enigma

I have been raised in a fishing family but this post still gives great advice

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 Posted: Mon Jun 25th, 2012 07:10 pm
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Enigma
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To standardise I used a torium on preset drag of 3.25kg to test the load on the angler.

We measure the load at the anglers, typical grip posisiton to the maximum load experienced on 3.25kg

SeaGrand II. 4-6oz 4.2m: 16.25kg

Seagrand II. 6-8oz 4-2m: 17.85kg

Shark Extreme Heavy 3.85m 18.25kg

Rugged Special 10z 4m 19.40kg

Purglas 350/6 (4m) 17.05kg

Purglas 350/4 fiberglass 19.94kg

PE8 7'6" Popping Rod 12.4kg

5' 30lbs boat rod 8.6kg

12' Soft Glass Carp Rod 7.2kg

So why such a difference on the various 14' rods. what I found is that the softer the rod, the more you pull on the rod the more it bends so once the drag starts releasing line the rod is effectively 6' long.

The one that didn't make sense was the 13' Fiberglas, Purglas which worked me as much as a the Shark Extreme heavy.

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