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POOR BRAID TESTS!!! Merged threads...  Rating:  Rating
 
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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 10:35 am
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marine69
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Mana: 
Guys, this really concerns me. Its a bit difficult when you have a fish spooling your braid and then you have to think now of how you are going to try and get your braid wet to make it stronger. And on top of that, we are all going to be fishing now, and in the back of our minds we will be hoping that the braid does not break. Cant really believe in the terminal tackle now all of a sudden...

And ya, sounds like a bit of a lottery now when purchasing your braid. I have just recently bought a new TN40, and got 600meters of P Braid (or P Line Braid). Anyone every heard of it? Its big in durbs now apparently. Ordered it from the Tackle Box in durbs.

Last edited on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 10:53 am by marine69

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 10:55 am
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Mana: 
marine69 wrote: P Line Braid. Anyone every heard of it? Its big in durbs now apparently...

I think the ESA guys use it on their offshore big game set ups.  Remember Mark De La Hey saying last week that his SLT50W was spooled with 350m 80lb mono topshot and 500m 80lb P Line Braid backing, used for trolling for Marlin - last weeks show me thinks.  Sounds reassuring???

Come to think of it, I now seem to recall the ESA land based (r&s) guys losing one or two big fish while on their backing because "their braid parted" - must have been the Kingfisher?

Gilly

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 11:03 am
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marine69
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Mana: 
Yeah, come to think of it now Gilly, sounds familiar. Remember him saying it with they hooked into that Blackfin.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 11:15 am
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Mana: 
Raggieman wrote: a question for you guys - how much pressure is actually going to be on that braid if you have 200 - 300m top shot out into the water and you actually into your braid



Not too sure - I don't think you have the full pressure on, as the mono will absorb the greatest proportion of the strain. 

But thats not the point here - Like you say Raggie, if you buy 40lb braid you want to know that you can at least put 30lb of pressure on it if you have to, right?

And this doesn't help the guys who have full braid on their fixed spool reels (Stella's etc) now does it?  These guys are usually jigging or popping / plugging and spinning off the boat with braid only - some guys maybe with a short mono shock leader and most with a flouro hook snoot / bite trace, but thats not gonna be more than 3 or 4 metres in total - so they're gonna get almost full pressure on their braid, right?  And if they're gonna be fishing with 40lb braid that breaks at 15lb, what good is a 10kg safe max drag rating?

BTW I just put 40lb Suffix braid backing on my r&s reels - and I shudder to think!

Anyone done any tests on Mustad Dynamite Ultra?  Have some 15lb 0.08mm (!) on my ABU baitcasters - will test today.

Gilly

 

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 11:21 am
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sven
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Mana: 
hi there reefman,

was thinking maybe it would help if some1 set up a letter that we can all put our names to that then gets sent to these so called reps,manufactures and suppliers outlining these findings and future boycots of the respective bad braids, suppliers that aren't interested etc.

just a thought, numbers always carry more weight!!!

interested to see what comes of all this!!!!!

 

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 11:32 am
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marine69
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Mana: 
I think thats a great idea Sven. Lets take this up with them, get something hard copy on the way. They will quickly make a plan when they find there products arent selling.

Im off to the fishing specialist now to have a nice chat with Keith and the boys.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 11:43 am
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Nepptune
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Mana: 
Random here, but I just rechecked my post... made an error...

My YGK Ultra is PE 6, no 8 nd is tested to 86lbs...

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 11:56 am
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GL
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Mana: 
Agree, dry vs wet is irrelevant as braid could break as u are being spooled by fish. Sentiment shared by shop.

tests were done under constant pressure with shop owner holding scale . . . no jerking or sudden hard pulling like a fish would sometimes do.

my stellas are currently only spooled with braid as we intend to plug and jig 90% of the time.

i'm gonna check casting distance with 50lb mono this weekend and if there is +/-5m loss in distance, then i'm switching to mono as i need to know its pulling power is constant. if Gt's run, we're dead so line must stop it dead on the take.

Reefman, maybe we can do tests on 16 Feb. I can then still change to leave for kilwa on 17 feb

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 12:45 pm
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Nepptune
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Mana: 
Graeme - Mate, don't switch to Mono on your popping or jigging set ups... if you do, you might as well send me the Stella's, the Hots anmd the Carpenters, along with all your poppers/stickbaits and Jigs, and stick to trolling with mono... Don't worry, i'll look after your gear for you till Bugatti and Marion.... :-)

You'll never have the stopping power in mono that you'll need...For it, you'll need at last 37 kilo mono.. Compare 37 kilo mono to 37 kilo braid... Try casting 80lb mono.... I'll be surprised if you can hit 40 metres....

I'm also playing the waiting game with Fed Ex... supposed to be here today... but only left Indiana yesterday...

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 12:56 pm
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Drenalinjunkie82
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I am pissed. I have paid close to R3500-00 for braid in the last month and if this is the case then somebody is going to feel it. I'm going to test mine this weekend and will let you guys know. I have 1800m 50lb whiplash, 1500m 45lb kingfisher.....

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 01:14 pm
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Simen
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My Gallery: 
Got feedback from Berkley ( Fireline )UK. Will have full report by tomorrow. Sufix no answer on questions but forwarding the mail to their MD as we speak. The problem with Kingfisher braid is that it gets marketed under a name and I dont have the manufacturer. If anyone knows let me know.
Read this sent by Berkley

FireLine

The following are some tips and ideas to help answer questions on FireLine.

Fire Line Facts: FireLine is a thermal filament fishing line, NOT a mono and NOT a braid. It is made from MICRO Dyneema, the world’s strongest fiber. It is a lot of small fibers bonded together to deliver the best HIGH PERFORMANCE LINE ever developed!

Its smaller diameter per pound test compared to mono allows for the angler to use a more powerful presentation without giving up the features and benefits of a small line. It is not a replacement for mono in all-fishing situations.

FireLine delivers longer and more controllable casts than mono or braids of the same pound test. Since it has very low sustained memory it comes off the reel faster and with less friction giving better casting distance. The smaller diameter is not affected by the wind as much, thus giving the angler better control of the lure and improving its accuracy.

The small diameter of FireLine gives lures better diving depth and also improves the actions of most lures. For live bait it makes for a more natural presentation. The added sensitivity allows the angler to feel the softest pick-up.

As your experience with FireLine increases and you understand the compromise between stretch and sensitivity, you will be able to fish FireLine in more and more situations. Think of FireLine as an ultra high performance sports car and you will understand why high performance is a product of compromises; the sports car goes fast, corners hard, but can’t carry six people and the groceries, so you have compromised. FireLine is a product for ultra high performance fishing. It offers the ultimate in long casting distances, sensitivity and thin diameter, but doesn’t provide the shock resistance that a monofilament does. The low stretch of FireLine means solid hook sets at any distance. You don’t have to rear back and “cross their eyes.” As they say down south, “just a solid pull will drive the hook home!”

Reels:
CASTING: The best FireLine for casting is the 14 lb. test and up. Even with 14 lb. or larger the small diameter should be taken into consideration when adjusting the reel and choosing a lure. A good way to start out with FireLine is to increase your spool tension or magnet control. This will slow down the line coming off the reel. You will find that FireLine comes off faster and smoother than mono or braids and will deliver increased distance even with more spool tension. If the spool is too loose you will have some over runs that can snap lures off very quickly in the casting motion. It is not necessary to cast harder to get more distance. In fact, a smooth casting motion will deliver the best distance.

SPINNING REELS: All pound tests of FireLine work well on spinning reels; with 6, 10 and 14 being the best. The line lies on the reels very well yet comes off quickly in a cast to give added distance.

SPINCAST REELS (CLOSED FACE REELS): FireLine WILL NOT WORK well on spincast reels.

Choose the right line: Match the FireLine line diameter (not pound strength) to the equivalent Mono line diameter that you normally use (Example: 8 lb. mono = 8/20 FireLine). Be sure to spool your line as tight and uniform as possible.

Attaching FireLine to your reel: Since FireLine has almost no stretch it must be tied as well as taped to the reel arbor to prevent slippage. The Berkley tape tab on the end of your FireLine fits this need very well. Simply tie FireLine onto the arbor of your reel and place the tape tab over it. Another way would be to use a mono backing since FireLine’s small diameter makes it hard to fill most reels with a 125 yard spool. You may want o use a blood knot or a nail knot to attach the FireLine to monofilament.
When spooling your reel, the line needs to be put on tightly to prevent the line from “digging in” to the other layers.

Knots to use: FireLine works with regular fishing knots. The best and recommended knot is the Palomar, which delivers 100% of rated strength when used with FireLine. Knots that rely on wraps for strength, such as the Trilene knot, need to have at least six wraps to avoid slippage and leave ½ to ¾ inch tag end.

Rod recommendation: Since FireLine has low stretch you can use a softer action rod that is easier and more fun to cast and use. You no longer need a real heavy rod to deliver the power to your hands. The power is in the line! Rods with more flex will fight the fish more effectively and wear them down. When the fish gets close to the boat it is important to have your drag adjusted to allow for big fish to take the line.

What to Expect: As you use FireLine the color will fade to a smoke gray, this is normal. Micro Dyneema does not absorb dye; you can use a permanent black magic marker to color the line (make sure to let it dry!). You will also notice some fuzz along the line; this is also normal. However, if you see a strain down by the knot, cut off 5 – 10 feet of FireLine and retie (if you have the time I reel it on to another reel with the old end on the inside.) If you see a strain down in your reel or along the line check your equipment over very well. The small diameter of FireLine allows it to find a cracked eye or worn line guide on your reel much faster that mono,

One of the strongest things that can be said for FireLine is that it is fun to fish. The sensitivity that it brings to the angler is much better than any line before it. Many use it just for the sensitivity. You feel every thing from a small minnow swimming on your hook, to being able to identify the bottom content from the jig dragging across it. You will now notice how a small fish attacking your bait comes to life.
FireLine is faster than mono on the cast and in the water, as well as more powerful than the super braids. It is unquestionably the strongest, thinnest fishing line made!


ADDITIONAL INFO THAT MAY BE HELPFUL:

Perhaps the most important thing is to use superline in a diameter that is similar to the mono line you would use for the same application. For example, using 50 lb. braid (that has 12 lb. diameter) when you would normally use 12 lb. mono. Superlines and braids need to be put on the reel tightly. This keeps the line from 'digging in' to the layers as you fish. For lures use a Palomar knot.
When using a superline or braid on a bait casting /level wind reel, it is also helpful to back your reel with monofilament.
For putting on mono backing use the uni to uni knot or a blood knot. The reason you want to use mono backing is that super lines have a tendency to slip around your spool. This slipping can cause the line to not go on tight enough, this then causes the line to 'dig in' when you set the hook or get a snag. Then the next time you cast out you lose your lure in mid cast or get backlash and a big mess. It also causes your reel to feel as though your drag is not working. All you need is enough mono line to cover the arbor of your reel. We suggest staying, as close to the diameter of the superline or braid as possible, you will get a better knot this way. Many people put more backing on the reel to raise their super line up to get the best casting results.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 02:10 pm
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Reefman
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Mana: 
Thanks for that Simen... it's interesting that in my tests so far, Fireline is the only line that comes close to it's claimed breaking strain.??

I'm interested to hear what the Provincial anglers from WP say about all this...?

EXPAT, WEEDS ? You guys got any take on this issue?

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 02:45 pm
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DWB
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Gilly wrote: Come to think of it, I now seem to recall the ESA land based (r&s) guys losing one or two big fish while on their backing because "their braid parted" - must have been the Kingfisher?

Gilly

ESA only uses whiplash.................

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 02:47 pm
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marine69
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Mana: 
Choose the right line: Match the FireLine line diameter (not pound strength) to the equivalent Mono line diameter that you normally use (Example: 8 lb. mono = 8/20 FireLine). Be sure to spool your line as tight and uniform as possible.


Well then whats the point of using braid as a backing? In the case of what they are saying, they use is as it is stronger than mono. We as anglers are using it not for strength to say, but more for capasity.

I would also love to know the following and not too sure of how to get an answer out of the following. When we have a fish on, that has taken 300 meters of mono out and you are into your backing. How much pressure (lbs) is being put onto the braid? Hard to tell.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 02:50 pm
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The master assasin
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Guys..has anyone spoken to kingfisher as yet? I know they settle their queries asap..

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 02:54 pm
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marine69
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Another 5 cents....

Our second league comp this season, i was fishing "The Toilet" on Gordans Bay mountain. Was using my TN30 with 50lb whiplash and about 250 meters of .55. I got nailed, either a white or a HUGE flatty. I got spooled my over a period of 12 mins (600meters). When coming down to the drum, i realised that i had to do something or else i would end up in the sea and quickly making my way past Cape Point. I put as much pressure on the spool with my hands and didnt let and inch of line out, waiting for the fish to stop, or line to break. Well, the line broke after some serious serious tension. I reeled every bit of my whiplash back, my mono all the way to my binimi. I can trust you, there was a lot more than 30 lbs on the whiplash, and it held fast

Last edited on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 02:55 pm by marine69

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 03:17 pm
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Jasper
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Mana: 
now THIS is a very interesting link!! ... might make us feel a bit better about all that money we forked out on Braids!!

But then again ... maybe it means we are getting inferior stuff shipped out to South Africa? .. makes one think!!

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=43558

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 04:01 pm
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DWB
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Pitty they didn't have some kingfisher braid.....

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 04:18 pm
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Noweeds
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I have never had my braid break - ever - i use whiplash!

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 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2008 05:02 pm
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My personal experience with braid ...

I can echo what Noweeds says ...

I have used the original green Berkley Whiplash braid not the newer Pro version (imported from the USA via mailorder in 2002) in 30lb and 50lb test on all my tackle (spinning reels and multipliers) for Bass and Rock and Surf (same braid for the past 5 years) and never had a breakoff on the braid.

I generally use a short mono leader or longer mono topshot joined uni to uni (double braid line with at least 12 turns in the braid section and single mono line with 6 turns in the mono section).

When Bassing from the shore when I want to break off on purpose after getting stuck - the mono leader breaks outside the knot ...

I have been very satisfied with Berkley Whiplash.

One of my bassing buddies in the USA ("Fish" Chris Wolfgram: http://www.trophybassonly.com) only uses TUF-line by Western Filament and swears by it. TUF-line is apparently a little cheaper than Whiplash as well ...

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SEALINE - South African Angling and Boating Community > General Angling Topics > Fishing Tackle & Tips > POOR BRAID TESTS!!! Merged threads... Top