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casting a scarborough  Rating:  Rating
 
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 Posted: Thu May 20th, 2010 08:01 pm
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bambooskollie
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Mana: 
Ive added a 6in scarborough reel to my collection and although i can throw  decently with a multiplier, this reel seems to have a way of its own. Needless to say. it  humbles u quickly. 

Has any one got a video or a tutorial .

Do you have to use a fibre-glass rod ?

Can one use an overhead cast ?

Any info wld be appreciated .

tx

da skollie

 

 

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 Posted: Thu May 20th, 2010 08:11 pm
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BigMatt
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Joined: Wed Jul 30th, 2008
Location: Lives: Port Alfred, Studies: Grahahstown, South Africa
Posts: 2395
Equipment: KPs and Baitcasters
Best Catch: 10kg Couta on pink prawn
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Mana: 
a floppier rod than usual is my suggestion. my main tip is to let the reel accelerate to top speed during your cast. the reel must already have reached max spin speed by the time you would want to release with a multiplier.

i cast in two manners

first of all is the style where your back faces the water and you sweep the rod from your left to your right from a waist height to about the height of your shoulder. it is very hard to explain, but there is a book sold in most tackle shops called "fishing natal" or something similar. it explains that technique. its a small paper back for about 20 rand or so.

the other technique is called the sizela whip from what i can recall. its where you hold the rod level perpindicularly in front of you. you then whip it left and bring it around over your head to be thrown more or less in the direction you were pointing to start. imagine you are wielding a samurai sword of sorts trying to hack at a bamboo shoot at about eye level. thats the best i can explain it

hope that helped a bit

BM

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 Posted: Fri May 21st, 2010 05:47 am
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surfaMIKE
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Mana: 
hahaha I just remeber when you did that sizela whip. Looked like you were swatting a fly. Needless to say, it worked better than the normal style

Bambooskollie, Matt is right about the rod, it should preferably be the floppy fibreglass type, and the reel should already be spinning by the time you let go. I cast a scarborough overhead style and use my left hand to brake it on the side of the reel, and keep the reel level, otherwise whaaaaa zeeeee grrrr gig dwack!

Match that 6inch kp with a 12-13ft fibreglass rod and you should be sorted. Use a 4-6oz sinker. I can cast my 6inch kp on a 13ft with a 5oz roughly 70m

Overwinds are worse on a kp though

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 Posted: Fri May 21st, 2010 06:35 am
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Koper
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Joined: Sun Jan 4th, 2009
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Mana: 
Now for a very dumb question - how the hell do you get the reel to spin before letting go?

Or am I missing something here?

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 Posted: Fri May 21st, 2010 06:54 am
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surfaMIKE
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Mana: 
Dunno how Matt does it, but I let it "slide" a bit while bringing the rod over my shoulder, then let go... You'll see, kp's arent that hard to cast, its the seriousness of the overwinds that put me off.

There are plenty of ways to cast a reel

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 Posted: Fri May 21st, 2010 07:05 am
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BigMatt
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Mana: 
yeah you have to slack off your hold on the wheel almost from the start of your swing. by the time you reach the angle at which you would let go of a multiplier spool, you should have completely let go, or be just just just regulating the speed of the KP. the sudden speed change when casting a multiplier spool is regulated by brakes and spring tensioned busher and magnets what not. if you try to flick a kp, it will kill you!

slow is smooth, and smooth is fast!

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 Posted: Fri May 21st, 2010 07:12 am
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Koper
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Mana: 
BigMatt wrote: yeah you have to slack off your hold on the wheel almost from the start of your swing. by the time you reach the angle at which you would let go of a multiplier spool, you should have completely let go, or be just just just regulating the speed of the KP. the sudden speed change when casting a multiplier spool is regulated by brakes and spring tensioned busher and magnets what not. if you try to flick a kp, it will kill you!

slow is smooth, and smooth is fast!

:rastaOk - get the idea, Thanx!:rasta

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 Posted: Fri May 21st, 2010 09:12 am
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BigMatt
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Joined: Wed Jul 30th, 2008
Location: Lives: Port Alfred, Studies: Grahahstown, South Africa
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Mana: 
advice given to sharpshooters for cycling the the action between shots :)

thought it was applicable to the taboo nature of casting a KP

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 Posted: Fri May 21st, 2010 09:27 am
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JJ Pienaar
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Mana: 
I like my Kp'z weather it's for whiping, throwing bait's etc..

My heavyist set up i have is my 6oz Conilon 13'6 rod, 6' closeface'd kp, .45 gaint Abrasion , and my plug's 5oz up to 6oz with a good cast i cast up to a 100m over head...

If u intend spining spoon's frm shore with a kp i would recomend a 7' spoky on a 13 foot meduim to light one piece rod..

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 Posted: Mon May 24th, 2010 04:07 pm
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bambooskollie
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Mana: 
thanks for all the info, will be throwing it this week. ill take a video of the session and post it when i feel ive got it go-ing. exzactly the info i needed to get me to the next step i think.. cheers for now da skollie

Last edited on Mon May 24th, 2010 04:08 pm by bambooskollie

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 Posted: Thu May 27th, 2010 11:23 am
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tintin1
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Joined: Sat Mar 28th, 2009
Location: Perth, Australia
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Equipment: daiwa; penn; KP on Purglas; Poseidon; Comp. Dev. stix
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Mana: 
You will need someone to show you some of the tricks.  The rod/reel/line/weight setup is important and so is what you get to do when things start going wrong. 

If I get a round tuit I'll see if I can get a friend to video what I do, and then post that, as it is hard to explain in words.  The standard you are going for is to be able to do the "Sezela sweep (I've heard other names)" - which is a tad harder than the sweep that starts with your back to the ocean - but not much. 

You also need to work out what shoulder you want to cast over.  I cast a KP over my left for 2 reasons - my reel hand is then my right hand and also my clever hand.  The other reason is most of my mates are right-handers with o/heads or fixed spools and we can share a small rock to cast from....

When you get it waxed you can cast a wide variety of stuff.  I use by preference a 6" KP Delux light on a graphite 3.6m Purglas/1 rod and 0.45mm line for driftbait and spinning.  I'll lob an unweighted sard 50 to 60m in light conditions, whip a 20g spoon about the same and if I put on something about 2oz I'll get it about 90m. 

I can get same 2oz about 120 to 130m on a Saltist 30 with 0.4mm line.

But when you are learning you need something a bit heavier and slower, which can take a bit of abuse from tangles, etc....  I learned the feel of it with a 5  3/4" ground bait reel on a .55mm line  with a 3oz sinker.  Then went lighter on a 5 1/2" standard reel.  Go gently with lighter sinkers to start.  When things work out for you, these light sinkers can be given a hard whip and will get out there.

Really, you need to see it before you will have a chance.  Find someone near you to show how to start and get the feel going.  The KP spins a lot slower than an overhead and is in some respects easier to learn to use well. 

 

 

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 Posted: Mon Jun 7th, 2010 07:41 am
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tintin1
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Equipment: daiwa; penn; KP on Purglas; Poseidon; Comp. Dev. stix
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Mana: 

Dear all - this is a bit of a hobby of mine - so I thought I'd try to get into words what a Scarbie cast is.  See series of photos that follows.  Do not seem to ba able to add them to this post.  Still suggest you get an hour or two with someone who knows how to do this well, but if that is missing, here is a start:

 

Let’s see if I can describe in words what I do to cast a KP 

 

Start with setup. 

 

You need a longish rod because it will help keep the timing slow and gentle until you have it properly under control.  Plenty of time to whip it hard and fast later.  Get a smooth swing waxed with lighter weights and while you are doing that the odd bunch you throw will be easier to sort out quickly and will damage less line and/or fingers.   If you are using mid-weight tackle, use a 0.45mm line and start with a 50g weight. 

 

Use a shock leader because you will be doing many casts and do not want to throw off a weight.  Consider using fingerless gloves as well.  I do so whenever I have an expectation of a hot-running fish, and they help by reducing the damage of spinning reel handles.

 

Choose a nylon or co-polymer line with some body.  You do not want the limp and soft lines for these reels.  In the old days the best line for a KP was the old Maxima dark green.  Sufix tritanium is one I use a bit these days, alternatively Penn 10x, which comes in at about .45mm and 10kg breaking strain.  You are looking for plenty of weight, heft and body in the line.  Once the reel is spinning, this line needs to poke its way off the spool, and not hang around to see what sort of trouble it can get into.  So, in this as in other matters, stiff is good. 

 

The size (a.k.a. inertia) of a KP determines where it is best used and what technique your cast will have to be.  The inertia depends upon the spool diameter, weight and line weight, and the weight you expect to be using to overcome the inertia.  The key thing to bear in mind is that the starting inertia of the reel increases exponentially with the diameter of the reel, and linearly with the weight.  It takes some considerable time (compared to an overhead) to start the spool spinning, so your release point in the cast is earlier than when using an overhead. 

 

The upshot of all that is that it is far easier to get a 6” reel to spin properly in a cast than a 7” reel.   For what they are worth, herewith my thoughts on KP selections:

 

 

4 1/2”                          light lines to 0.3 or 0.35mm, rods to about 7’ to 10’, casting weights from single prawn or light Rapala to spoons about 40g.  These reels are most suited for one-handed rods, light baits and lures.  Casting the lighter weights is often by setting the spool spinning with one hand and casting with the other.  Do not be fooled into thinking the reels are for small fish – you can land very big fish on a small KP.  These reels are for light conditions – calm and clear water, fine lines, unweighted baits or live-baits.  Many a game fish has been beaten on a light KP and a little hardy-head hooked through the lip.

 

5” and 51/2”               heavier lines to about 0.45mm, rods 9’ to about 12’, casting weights from about 20g to 70g.  You can cast much heavier than that on these reels, but then you need to do a side-cast and the reels are a bit light and small in the hand to make that easy (I have big hands).

 

6”                                 In the standard and deluxe form, this size KP is your basic light to medium surf gear.  Rods to about 12’ and can go longer when you have a good feel for the techniques.  Weights to about 100g, and 0.45mm or 0.50mm line works well. 

 

7”                                 Starting to get really heavy to cast.  The inertia starting the spool is high and for this reason is about the heaviest you can go throwing spoons or chisel-nose poppers.  The faster retrieve is great though.  This would be a hard reel with which to learn to cast a KP.  It is also hard work spinning from the rocks; lots of energy to start it up, lots of energy stopping the reel.  Think missing skin, no prints left on thumbs, etc.  Lots of people use this size from boats, where the distance is not a factor.  Having said all that, I was using a 7”KP and a 350/4 when I hooked and beat a yellowtail at Cape St Francis that was about 1.6m long.  The reel was quite strong enough and was a good match for the fish.  I pulled it from three reefs by dropping the drag to zero when I felt the reef (cannot do that with any other reels).  Sadly, did not get it out as the 100lb trace gave up just as my fishing buddy was getting into a gaffing position.

 

5 ¾” groundbait         The “Penn 49” of the KP world. Heavy gear used with 0.55 or 0.60 mm line and weights from 60g on up.  Still go with the 12’ rods.  I still use this size KP a fair bit for heavy spinning, and learned my casting on one.    They are really meant to use with a sidecast and a heavy bait, but are light enough to spin with.  The overhead cast is more of a trundle than a cast, but a 4m graphite stick can make the bearings hum like a lighter reel.  There is a lot of energy involved when you get up to these weights.

 

From all of the above, I would choose a 6’ standard or a 5 ¾” groundbait reel to learn on.  Set it up with a limber 12’ rod and a lighter weight.  Fiberglass rods have much slower timing and would start with one of these.  I recently tested my older sticks and - yes - the fibreglass stick is a better one to learn with.  Not essential, but you will get a better sense of the timing with the slower rod.  Mostly by getting it wrong and having the stick flop around a bit looking strange.  That is important feedback you miss with a graphite stick becasue it recovers so quickly.    Graphite rods can really get the KP’s spinning fast, but you want to know what you are doing before you try a hard cast on a graphite stick.   For the 6” KP, start with about 50g.  For a 5 ¾” groundbait reel, go to about 70g initially.

 

Next – Find an open beach with nothing for a long way around you.

 

You need to get the feel of your tackle (that is, the KP, rod, the casting weight and line) so we will start with a side-cast.   This is purely to get the feel of the spinning spool, the friction you need to put onto it to control the line, and how hard you have to clamp down when the sinker stops. 

 

I am going to use the clock analogy, with the open sea at 12, land at 6, and your right shoulder at 9.  The sidecast is going to be off-the ground until you are confident to swing the weight and start your cast without placing on the ground. 

 

Facing 6, point your rod at 6 and sinker about about ¾ rod-length of line from your rod-tip at 3. 

 

Smoothly start your cast by twisting and throwing up over your right shoulder to finish.   When the rod is at about 9, you will have a good bend in it and the weight will be accelerating.  Now is the time to swing that rod up at a 45 degree angle and let your fingers release the spool.  You will feel it want to go.

 

Do not let go entirely.  Those fingers are needed there to continue to provide friction, and keep it heavy to begin with.  Watch the reel and the line between the reel and the first eye.  You want a slight curve of line, nothing looping around.  Keep the spinning handles below the reel, because if you do get a loose loop of line, it will fall away from the spinning reel, and not into the works and spindle. 

 

Keep doing this until you have a good feel for the combo. 

 

But you will have a bunch sooner or later.  What to do?  Pull it off the reel, and go to work by pulling it sideways.  If you have kept things light and gentle, there should be no real problems.  If you do have to cut the line, join it using a uni-to-uni knot, trim it close and then continue.  These reels do not mind the odd knot (the spool spins a lot slower than an overhead) and we are learning, not fishing yet.

 

 

So let us start the “Sezela Sweep”

 

I am going to use the clock analogy, and assume you are right-handed.  For that, you will want your clever hand (thumb) to control the reel (casting and reeling in), and you will learn to cast over your left shoulder.  There are two clocks involved – the one is on plan – 12 where you want to cast and the other is vertical – 12 at the top. 

 

Start with a light weight, facing the direction you want to cast (12 - plan).  There are four bits to the cast, and the transition needs to be smooth.  Start with feet apart, left slightly behind the right.  Your rod in plan will be pointing to about 10:30 or 11:00 and in vertical to about the same.

 

Swing the weight on about 1.5 to 2m of line from rod-tip and throw it forward and to your right gently so that it does not go above the rod-tip.  Your rod now points to about 1 or 2 on the plan clock, and points to much the same direction (about 11:00 to 11:30) on the vertical clock.  If your weight gets above your rod tip, then you will have a little slack in the line and give a poor and bumpy start to what needs to be as smooth as silk. 


Now drag the rod back in a circle, pivoting about your reel-hand.  That is the part of the system that stays relatively still.  It will stay in front of your body at roughly the same height throughout the cast.  You want to drag the rod back so that the weight follows the rod tip to be close to the ground behind you, but not touching. You put a bit of power into this from where you stopped your gentle forward swing to the right  to about 9 in plan.  At the end of this your rod is horizontal or pointing slightly downwards (9 or 8 on vertical clock).  This part sets up the rest of the cast. 


There is a good photo that shows this.  I will attempt to attach at the end of this thread after I have finished editing.
 

It is actually easier than it reads.  Moreover, when you get good, you put on plenty of power in the drag backwards because this is where you set up the initial momentum, and the greater the momentum backwards, the more you can load the rod going forwards and the further you will cast.

 

Let the weight drift to a position behind you at about 6 in plan and hold the vertical attitude at between 9 and 8.

 

Start the forward push.  You need to start this before the sinker passes 6 behind you.  Your rod is behind you and it must come over your head.  But your head is in the way.  That is where you learn to be flexible.  I drop my right shoulder and push with the left hand, which rotates the system a bit so that the reel finishes up with handles facing downwards at an angle, and thumb on top of the reel flange.  This push should not be at full power until you get this cast happening properly.  There is a huge amount of power loaded into the rod from the drag back – it is comparable to a full-on pendulum cast at this point.  You do not want to be putting yet more into it until you have confidence in the cast. 


Again - some photos at the end of this show some of what I have described.
 

At about 11 in vertical, you release the reel.  You will feel the weight want to go, and this is a natural release if you have done it right up to this point.  You can continue to power on for a split second, but you will need now to watch the reel – or better still, the line between the first eye and the reel.  The line should be poking its way off the reel, and when you get good, there will be a gentle loop between the reel and the eye.  Until then, keep enough friction on the reel to keep this line reasonable tight.

 

If the sinker shoots straight at the first wave, then you let it go too late.  When I learned to cast a KP (I was in my mid-30’s) I was half-way proficient with an overhead.  It took some time to get used to the earlier release point. 

 

Once you have a fishable cast, go and find some fish and keep at them until you are good.  I had shoals of maasbanker for 3 years visiting in Gonubie Bay, and all it would take to get enough fish for my growing family was an hour in the morning before work.  One of my kids was raised on avocado and smoked maasbankers. 

 

When it all comes together, this is a cast you can do all day, and the line go out under almost no tension and will drop like smoke onto the water.  You will also be getting a bit further than most people on the beach until you sidle up to really good fisher folk who go in for competition fishing and the like.  Then, if necessary, simply swap the KP for an overhead and you will be surprised how well this cast works with an overhead. 

 

When I first went for GTs in Mozambique, I armed myself with a Penn 49A and a 350/4 and went about casting 4 to 6oz poppers.  Had a few GTs to 25kgs that trip, too.  This cast made it possible to work that tackle effectively throughout the day.  Since learned the error of my ways and now I fish light, but still use the Sezela Sweep cast when I am casting lures or otherwise have a light weight that I need to cast a long way on a heavy line.

 

This is a versatile cast.  I use the cast with:

·        unweighted sards, and if we have light conditions, can cast off a 6” deluxe with 0.45mm line as far as blokes next to me using 15lb fireline on a grinder.  Windy conditions from the front or side blow the heavy line about a bit, and then the fireline-on-a-grinder approach gets more distance. 

·        Small spoons – the 20g Abu Toby is a shad killer, but it has air-brakes.  The drag-back portion of the cast puts enough energy into the rod that I can get it about 40 to 50m under most conditions.

·        Medium spoons to about 90g (heavier than that gets a bit hairy with the Sezela Sweep) can fly a long way.  On a good cast, I count well over 240 handle winds before I see the spoon again.  That is over 100m.

 

A modern overhead will still cast further.  By about 15 to 20%.  However, at the ranges that I have fished with nylon lines, this is not a great factor in the number of fish on the bricks because it is really quite hard to set a hook at that range given the stretchy nature of the line and the relatively slow retrieve.  I have often missed fish at long range because I can feel the thumps but I am not connecting.  That is when to put the art and culture away with the KP and break out the fast and light overheads.    

 

If anyone is interested, I will get some photos together of the different stages.


 

 



Last edited on Sun May 1st, 2011 07:19 am by tintin1

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 Posted: Mon Jun 7th, 2010 12:51 pm
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dugongboy
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Mana: 
Very good article Tintin1!!!

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 Posted: Mon Jun 7th, 2010 12:58 pm
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Richard Ohagan
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Mana: 
Howzit Tintin, photos would be very nice, I have fished with kps for a long time but have never mastered a long cast, when fishing off a boat it dosnt matter, but in the surf it is extramly frustrating to say the least.

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 Posted: Mon Jun 7th, 2010 04:40 pm
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bambooskollie
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Joined: Mon Mar 23rd, 2009
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Best Catch: anyfish, anywhere, anytime. its all the best
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Mana: 
TT thanks for this info.

 i still havent had a chance to get to the edge for some practice. When i do its gonna be so much more productive after reading the tutorials

 

peace da skollie

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 Posted: Tue Jun 8th, 2010 12:09 pm
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dugongboy
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Mana: 
The best way of catching shoal couta 5" KP and a spoon!!

Attachment: Lingadart.jpg (Downloaded 1515 times)

Last edited on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 12:11 pm by dugongboy

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 Posted: Tue Jun 8th, 2010 12:13 pm
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dugongboy
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Favorite Fishing Spot: The Runway (Inhambane Bay Mozambique), FADS off Durban
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And even bigger with a 6" KP - if I remember correctly this fish was 11kgs

Attachment: 11kg.JPG (Downloaded 1519 times)

Last edited on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 12:15 pm by dugongboy

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 Posted: Tue Jun 8th, 2010 02:14 pm
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tintin1
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Joined: Sat Mar 28th, 2009
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 60
Equipment: daiwa; penn; KP on Purglas; Poseidon; Comp. Dev. stix
Best Catch: 20kg 'couta off rox
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Ok Ok

You gents have berleyed me up.  Here is one of mine....

Cobia of 12kg on a 6kg line and a 5"KP.  Rod is a heavy duty fly rod - a Lefty Kreh special designed for 14 and 15wt lines.  It is a fantastic spinning rod for the KP, and a drift bait rod.

Attachment: cobia.JPG (Downloaded 1505 times)

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 Posted: Tue Jun 8th, 2010 03:43 pm
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Jude
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Location: Gauteng Randburg, South Africa
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Equipment: Exage 1468, Shimano Speedmaster, Shimano Convergance, Shimano Sidestab 4000 RE
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BigMatt wrote: a floppier rod than usual is my suggestion. my main tip is to let the reel accelerate to top speed during your cast. the reel must already have reached max spin speed by the time you would want to release with a multiplier.

i cast in two manners

first of all is the style where your back faces the water and you sweep the rod from your left to your right from a waist height to about the height of your shoulder. it is very hard to explain, but there is a book sold in most tackle shops called "fishing natal" or something similar. it explains that technique. its a small paper back for about 20 rand or so.

the other technique is called the sizela whip from what i can recall. its where you hold the rod level perpindicularly in front of you. you then whip it left and bring it around over your head to be thrown more or less in the direction you were pointing to start. imagine you are wielding a samurai sword of sorts trying to hack at a bamboo shoot at about eye level. thats the best i can explain it

hope that helped a bit

BM

This is the Book you talking about BM....

Attachment: 1325793_091012115452_Natal_Coast_Fishing_Guide.jpg (Downloaded 1501 times)

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 Posted: Wed Jun 9th, 2010 07:00 am
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dugongboy
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Joined: Sat Nov 3rd, 2007
Location: Durban - Warmwater Country!!
Posts: 2644
Equipment:  Allsorts!!
Best Catch: Allsorts!!!
Favorite Fishing Spot: The Runway (Inhambane Bay Mozambique), FADS off Durban
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Nice fish tintin - dammn strong, I caught a cobia with a 5" KP off a boat and it took me an embarrasingly long time to land!!

@ Skollie - what BigMatt is referring to as a 'floppier' rod is best for 'whipping' couta spoons - if you look at the rod in the second pic you will notice how it bends all the way to the butt,(Its caught a lot of fish but like so many things in SA went 'missing') when 'whipping' you need to work up a rhythm, some guys can do it for hours and often bring the fish up to your baits. Mozambique is a great place to spoon because shoal couta are plentiful and you get lots of hits and can have some fun even though the fish are darts in the 3-7kg range you can fish light but I generally stick to 20lb on the 5" and 25lb on the 6".

In Mozambique I use a 4" spoon (sometimes dressed with a cuda duster) or a Spro bucktailjig and in Natal the guys generally use 5" or 6" couta spoons, I have seen guys on the South Coast use 7" spoons on 7/8" KP's and get some big fish!! (vertical jigging ha ha!)(Iwill try and post some spoon pics)

I am not too good at the 'cowboy' or 'sezela' and can do it ok but a mate of mine can do it amongst aerials/rods/people on the boat and still get 50-60 meters accurately - in fact I have seen him 'convert' a 3oz sinker 6 times out of 10 over rugby posts from half way and the 4 misses are all close!!

Sadly 'wagonwheel' fishing is dying out, less and less Indian fishermen use them on the beaches (ballraces) and with modern spinning reels around less lighties are learning to use them on the old mans boats, some guys even bottom fish with grinders.......WHY!! You cannot beat the simplicity of a scarborough, for me there is no better way of catching couta - your brain is connected directly to the fish, your hand is the drag and the gear 1:1 - EXCELLENT!!!

By the way the All Africa Striped Marlin record of 92kgs was caught on a.............6"KP!!!! (30lb mono with a live mozzie)

 

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