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Hapuku - possible first record of this fish in SA  Rating:  Rating
 
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 Posted: Sat Oct 29th, 2016 10:22 pm
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Is this better?

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 Posted: Sat Oct 29th, 2016 10:45 pm
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Thanks By catch.I agree with line 10 my spesimen is a wreck fish(polyprion) But witch one.Because iv caught both on one day I release the americanus. I took this one to be identified because personally I Dont think its the oxygeneios. Look at your PIC and mine ..Line 15 say that it indicates to a oxygeneios but the report say you Dont find them in sa but fish base say you do.If the author was of oppinion that you do find them here,the report would have identified it as a oxygeneios. Line17 is the one I believe is what we have here.Iv sent the report to Oxford and to Australian Mirene museum. Australia refers me to Dr Clive Robert from the New Zealand Mirene Museum.They say he can read the genetic finger print and is the best in the field of polyprion. Its not to run loops around the law.I can see the pics and I'm not colour blind.The pics Dont match.Sorry but I have to know

Last edited on Sat Oct 29th, 2016 10:56 pm by STB

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 Posted: Sat Oct 29th, 2016 11:13 pm
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The polyprion americanus(wreck fish) turn black when its dead in attatch a PIC of a adult.Our polyprion turns red /brown, more red.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 10:29 am
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Answer came back from Dr Clive Roberts.It defnitly not a polyprion americanus., but a Hapuku .email will be copied and posted on my artical "polyprion americanus" and "Bluenoses off Durban" When he is back at work on Des 5 i will continue our research on this topic .A complete sample will be sent to the mentioned institution for further analysis.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 11:54 am
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Thanks STB, very interesting. What I fear now is the number of guys who will be keeping Wreckfish on the strength (odds.....) of it being a Hapuka! This is actually a very delicate matter and I look forward to official responses from ORI, scientists and other regulatory bodies on the way forward.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 12:11 pm
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I receive feedback from Dr Clive Roberts witch is according to referrals the best Dr that has worked on this spiesie for 30 years.Read his email that I posted on the artical "Bluenoses off Durban" He was referd to me by the Australian marine museum and Oxford.Our local guys from ORI also think he would be the guy to talk to,so I did.In my opinion this spiesie is 10 times more healthier than any of our grouper spiesie we have in the shallows.I go according to what I catch and my own records.I still have to fish 9 of the 12 deep reefs off Durban but in the right time of the year.its like cuta season .,they have there time of the year when they area here in number that will blow your mind.The problem is no research have been done them or at the wrong places and time.But trust me we will do it just a few of us in such a manner to keep our infiromental responsibility in mind.

Last edited on Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 12:13 pm by STB

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 12:23 pm
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I hear you and what you are doing is commendable.
I still however fear that Joe Angler is going to use the "misidentification" between the two species as an excuse, similar to the Moustache Rockod / Wreckfish saga recently just South of you..........

Are you able to provide a clear, accurate and descript method of identifying whether it is a Wreckfish or Hapuka?

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 12:25 pm
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Yes with the genetic print out .

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 12:35 pm
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Make no mistake it is a wreck fish let's be clear of that.The ridge in line with the eye lateral to the spine on the gill plate says to me it is a wreck fish(polyprion) but the sub spiesie. Defnatly not a americanus.More likely to be a oxygeneios, but I think we have a spiesie here unique to our waters.As soon as Dr Clive Roberts is back at work he will check up for me.From there I'll take it futer and send a sample to our marine museum in gramstown as asked by him.For the moment all of this spiesie is released by method shown to me by Dr Bruce Man.I did give ORI 3 live fish yesterday from the depth of 500 m which I could not identified ,they said the condition of the samples was in a very good condition.I will atemt to catch the bluenose and wreck fish alive ,my boat is rigged for it.It just takes a long time to lift them.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 12:36 pm
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STB wrote:
Yes with the genetic print out .

If that is the only way to determine whether the fish is gaffed or released then we have a huge problem on our hands.
I can already sense how many anglers reading this thread are planning on pinning the next Wreckfish they catch.bw_l_)

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 12:48 pm
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I feel that proper research need to be done.In an ideal world al fish will be released.But for some one to class a fish spiesie with no idea what there number are is wrong.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 12:48 pm
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I feel that proper research need to be done.In an ideal world al fish will be released.But for some one to class a fish spiesie with no idea what there number are is wrong.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 12:58 pm
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These fish is very safe.Take it like this,out of all the boat we have in Durban let's say 10000 witch is Mutch more a maximum of 200 boats would fish 84 fa for geelbek.How many of this 200 will fish 500 m.At the moment only 4 of us.It also means these four boats are not fishing shallow.You get were I'm going with this.we will do 80 downs in the shallows in a day but only 8 in a day in the deep.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 01:09 pm
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I get it. However, I have caught Wreckfish juveniles in 80m already whilst targeting other species so the logic of some will be we can't fish at 500m but we can fish up to say the 150m mark and since we now have confirmed reports of Hapuka in SA waters, we assume them to be Hapuka and not Wreckfish and a whole new legal battle ensues.
Just my observation and Zim$20 M worth.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 01:16 pm
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What make this spiesie more important than any of our other grouper spiesie.They grow at more or less the same rate .80 or 150 m is the odd ones try 500 m or even better try 1500 m and see how big and how many.Nobody knows.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 01:16 pm
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What make this spiesie more important than any of our other grouper spiesie.They grow at more or less the same rate .80 or 150 m is the odd ones try 500 m or even better try 1500 m and see how big and how many.Nobody knows.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 06:51 pm
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Hapuku, Polyprion oxygeneios (Forster 1801)
More Info
________________________________________
Distribution Widespread in temperate waters of the Southern Hemisphere.
Known from temperate waters of southern Australia from the Sydney region (New South Wales) to Rottnest Island (Western Australia), and around Tasmania.
Adults usually live around deep reffs and canyons on the mid-continental shelf to upper slope in depths of 50-640 metres. Juveniles usually inhabit surface waters, often swimming amongst drfiting seaweed.
Features Meristic features.
Dorsal fin spines/rays: IX-XII, 11-12
Anal fin spines/rays: III, 9-11
Caudal fin rays: 17
Pectoral fin rays: 17-19
Pelvic fin spines/rays: I, 5
Vertebrae: 13 + 14
Lateral line (onto caudal fin): 77-98
Body oblong, of moderate depth (25-30% SL), slightly compressed. Head large (33-40% SL) with pointed snout; eyes small (15-17% HL); mouth large, oblique, lower jaw protruding; teeth villiform in broad bands in both jaws, present on vomer, palatines and tongue; opercula angular with prominent horizontal ridge ending in strong spine; preopercles rounded with small but strong serrations.
Scales ctenoid, covering body, head and fin bases, 140-180 in longitudinal series.
Single dorsal fin with a long-based spinous section possessing low notch just before soft part; anal fin with three small spines, third longest; caudal-fin truncate or slightly emarginate. Pectoral and pelvic fins rather small.
Size A large fish reaching a standard length of about 1.5 metres, and a totla length of 1.8 metres. The maximum reported weight is 100 kg, although some report 70 kg.
Colour Steely-grey, much darker above and on the outer margins of the fins.
Feeding Carnivore - feeds on a variety of benthopelagic and bottom-dwelling fishes and invertebrates.
Biology Little is known of the biology of Hapuku in Australian waters. The sexes are separate and fertilisation is external. Hapuku mature at 10-13 yeras and may live to more than 60 years. They spawn in midwinter following a prespawning migration.
The eggs and larvae are pelagic. Anderson et al. (2012) described eggs and larvae reared in laboratory conditions. Hapuku have an extended pelagic juvenile phase, and spend up to 4 years in the open ocean before settling out in deeper water.
Although Hapuku are widespread in sou9thern hemisphere waters, genetic studies have shown that there three distinct populations
Fisheries A highly valued commercial and recreational fish, taken in small numbers in Australia, mostly as bycatch in the deepsea Blue-eye Trevalla fishery. Hapuku are commercially important in New Zealand waters where they are taken in large numbers by long-line fishers. There is some concern that populations can be easily overfished.
The flesh is excellent eating.
Conservation • EPBC Act 1999 : Not listed
• IUCN Red List : Not Evaluated
Similar Species Differs from the Bass Groper, Polyprion americanus, in having a shallower body (less than 30% standard length), and a distinctly countershaded colour pattern - adults are dark above and paler below; pelagic juveniles have oblique bands on the body.
Species Citation • Epinephelus oxygeneios Forster, J.R. in Bloch, M.E. & Schneider, J.G. 1801. Systema Ichthyologiae Iconibus ex Illustratum. Berlin 584 pp. 110 pls [301].
• Type locality: Queen Charlotte Island, New Zealand.
Author Dianne J. Bray

http://fishesofaustralia.net.au/home/species/3235

Attachment: PolyprionOxygeneiosNMV.jpg (Downloaded 101 times)

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 Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2016 06:53 pm
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Bass Groper, Polyprion americanus (Bloch & Schneider 1801)
More Info (WRECKFISH IN SA)
________________________________________
Distribution Widespread in southern Australia from about Fraser Island (Queensland) to north of Perth (Western Australia), including Tasmania.
Elsewhere widespread but discontinuous in the Atlantic, Indian and Pacific Oceans, including New Zealand.
Adults usually inhabit deep rocky reefs at 100–900 m (most commonly at 350-700 m), juveniles to 60 cm are pelagic, associating with floating debris.
Features Meristic features.
Dorsal fin spines/rays: XI-XII, 11-12
Anal fin spines/rays: III, 9-10
Caudal fin rays: 17
Pectoral fin rays: 15-18
Pelvic fin spines/rays: I, 5
Lateral line (incl. onto caudal fin): 70-87
Vertebrae: 13 + 14.
Body depth 35.3-43.3% SL; head length 37.6-44.4% SL; bony orbit diameter 18.2-21.1% HL; upper jaw 39.8-50.5% HL, lower jaw protruding; posterior margin of preopercle and subopercle finely serrate (juveniles with strong serrations on orbitals, supraoccipital crest, opercular ridge, posttemporal, supracleithrum, cleithrum, and pelvic and anal spines).
Size Reaches 2 m in length and 100 kg in weight, commonly to 80 cm and 15 kg.
Colour Adults uniform dark brown to slate grey on sides, caudal angles white; juveniles brownish grey, mottled with irregular pale white to yellow markings, caudal with white margin.
Feeding Carnivores - feed on other fishes and invertebrates.
Biology The sexes are separate and fertilisation is external. Bass Groper spawn in mid-winter, possibly after a substantial migration to the spawning grounds.
Fisheries Taken as bycatch on deep longlines in the Blue-eye Trevalla fishery in Australian waters.
Conservation • EPBC Act 1999 : Not listed
• IUCN Red List : Not Evaluated (Australian population)
The Bass Groper is threatened by over-fishing in some areas and listed by the IUCN as Data Deficient in some parts of its range.
Species Citation Amphiprion americanus Bloch & Schneider, 1801, Syst. Ichth.: 205. Type locality: "America".
Author DIanne J. Bray & Martin F. Gomon

http://fishesofaustralia.net.au/home/species/3234

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 Posted: Thu Nov 3rd, 2016 01:35 am
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Still not matching the colour.They say 3 distinct populations of Hapuku and that you find them with the deep water travelly(bluenose)Confirms it.I think we have our own spiesie of Hapuku here with its own colours. But nothing beats DNA results.I'll wait for confirmation before I fish for them.

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 Posted: Thu Nov 3rd, 2016 01:56 am
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Interesting have a look at polyprion idea

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