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Leader strength and length!!!???  Rating:  Rating
 
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 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 03:44 pm
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Ianzo
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Mana: 
Hi there.

Ok so I have a jigging/popping outfit with some 50lb braid on the reel.

Now the question:   - What lb strength should the leader be for doing some jigging and popping?

                                 - Then what legnth should the leader be. Should I be  looking  at  3 m or will 60 cm siffice.

                                  - Then also the knot jong the braid and mono. I tried an albright with 100lb mono and its a BIG knot.

Any help and suggestions.

Thanx Ianzo

 

Last edited on Tue Nov 11th, 2008 03:47 pm by Ianzo

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 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 04:10 pm
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carcharias
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Mana: 
A good ballpark is to double your line strength. 50lb braid = 100lb leader. Use windon leaders of about 8m. If you hook that prise GT he's going to test your tackle to the max.
Im assuming that you are targetting big GT's anhd similar species.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 04:23 pm
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Nepptune
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Mana: 
Ian

I agree with Carch on leader length for sure.... you want at least 3 or 4 turns on the reel whenthe fish is boatside for that little bit of extra shock absorption, because with straight briad and jjust a tiny leader, you ain't got none!!! :-)

Leader strength very much is dictated by target species, depths, structure and of course whether your quarry has teeth or not...

If one is fishing around HEAVY structure, then you might at times need to go to 150lb even, or more, to keep fish from rubbing you off on the bricks.... Specuies such as Yellowtail and Amberjack and GT's will spend most of their time trying to get as close to the bricks as possible, and 100lb sometimes just doesn't cut it due to teh abrasion. Some of the top Kiwi jiggers are fishing up to 300lb leaders because of rub offs!!!!

I would look at anything from 50lb to 150lb here in this country.
For Yellowtial here in the Cape around the point, I use 50lb, then with a short section of 100lb or 120lb for the bastard snoek..... but if there are no snoek around, then its straight 50lb.

Now there are two options with braid to Mono....

1 - As Carch mentioned, wind on leaders. Reefer has done some great tutorials in the Knots section on making your own wind ons.

2 - Using a slim binding style knot such as a PR Knot or Mid Knot. Most jiggers favour these over wind ons, but I think its all about personal preference.
The PR Knot is a tricky sucker, and requires time and prcatise, as well as a modified bobbin to tie, but once you have it down, it is without doubt the most awesome connection, and quite simple to tie....
The Mid Knot is a slightly quicker and less involved version, and trusted by some of the best, and is a great option for tying on the boat, when a PR can be a bit tricky... although I tied one in the dark in the back of Hammertimes ClubCab at 4:00AM on the way to launch the boat the other day, and it was fine... practise practise practise!

Both these knots rely on the binding properties of braid, binding on Mono,rather tahn actually knotting the thick Mono, and work better on mono than most flouros...

Here is a great page of Knots, including the PR, courtesy of ChrisW:
http://www.jigsdirect.com/eMerchantPro/pc/fishing_knots.asp

The PR is much easier to see in person/video though.... But also shown are the Mid KNot and GT knot...

Hope this helps a little.

Nepps

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 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 04:32 pm
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carcharias
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Mana: 
And there you have it from the expert popper and jigger!

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 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 11:45 pm
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Ianzo
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Mana: 
Thanx for the help guys. I didn't think one actually use such thick leaders. Its like weedeater wire.

I will definetely try those knots. I tried the albright and it seemed quite big especially doing casting its clatters against the guides.

and yes will be targeting gt's and anything willing to take a jig, spoon or popper.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 11:48 pm
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Ianzo
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Mana: 
Then another thing. I got the stella 8000 and a daiwa monster mesh rod. I want to know whether you guys pre-set the drag to the setup's limit. and if so, how? or do you just make an good estimate guys while setting the drag and holding on when the GT starts running.

any suggestions welcome. thanx anyway

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 Posted: Wed Nov 12th, 2008 08:50 am
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carcharias
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Mana: 
Never, never start with your drag very tight. If a decent size GT smashes your lure you going to loose that rod. It will rip the rod out of your hands. You could even end up going overboard if youre on a boat. Remember that fishing with braid is very different to fishing with mono. Mono has plenty streach to absorb the shock of a big hit, braid has virtually no give. I would set my drag at a third of the max drag rating or a third of the line rating , whichever is the lesser rating. I always fish with a pretty loose drag. You can tighten the drag as soon as you have the fish on. Its like braking in your car, you dont slam the brakes on , you apply them smoothly and keep increasing the preassure if neccisary.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 12th, 2008 08:58 am
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Polychaete
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Mana: 
carcharias wrote: Never, never start with your drag very tight. If a decent size GT smashes your lure you going to loose that rod. It will rip the rod out of your hands. You could even end up going overboard if youre on a boat. Remember that fishing with braid is very different to fishing with mono. Mono has plenty streach to absorb the shock of a big hit, braid has virtually no give. I would set my drag at a third of the max drag rating or a third of the line rating , whichever is the lesser rating. I always fish with a pretty loose drag. You can tighten the drag as soon as you have the fish on. Its like braking in your car, you dont slam the brakes on , you apply them smoothly and keep increasing the preassure if neccisary.

I only catch little Yellowtail, when they hit your lure 5 Mt's away from you on braid and you are not wide awake...........ditto above.:lol:1

It is great fun though!

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 Posted: Wed Nov 12th, 2008 02:20 pm
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Nepptune
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Mana: 
Ianzo - Once again I agree with Carch, the man knows his nuts! ;-)
But once again I would like to add that there is no hard and fast rule to this, and once again, location and species needs to be taken into account.

Example: Shallow water popping, plenty of Coral heads and Bommies around, and you are casting at 20 to 40 kilo GT's.... in a situation like this, you would normally be fishing 100lb plus braid with your drag set at around 12 kilos, because anything else, and you just gonna get smoked.... in fact you'll still get smoked pretty often!!!
But in a situation like this, you are 100% prepared for that strike.... its visual, and you are expecting it.... you aren't popping over deep water where the strike comes outta nowhere, you will 9 times out of 10 see the fish come up before they strike and you'll prepare yourself for it, and for the heavy drag pressure.

Now in a case where you are popping over deeper structure, and with rleatively "lighter" tackle, like your 8000 and 50lb braid, then I would certainly follow the Carhman's advice and fish lighter drags.... for me, set around 5 to 7 kilos probably,using 50lb braid.

And for GT's, you don't really wanna let them run too much, especially if you are over a reef with a drop off nearby.... However, if you have a decent boat skipper, make use of the boat, and get yourself and the boat over and away from the drop off, and this will allow you a much better chance at landing that GT, while using relativelty light tackle.... Look at all the great 20 plus GT's taken by the Blackfin guys, while fishing softplastics/dropshots, on 14lb Braid and relative noodle sticks.... technique, and boat handling play a big factor here, as does using the correct angles on the fish.

Another factor, in some areas, is sharks... GT's make a lot of noise when hooked and fisghting, and can become shark food pretty quick... so if you can get them to the boat quickly, then do it!

While fishing off the beach, a whole other setoff rules comes into play, and one has to way up the whole, LOCK AND SKULLDRAG that fish, which means locking the drag, and putting as much pressure on the fish as possible from the get go.....
Pros:
Can potentially get fish turned and away from any structure immediately.
If you turn them, they can be landed quickly and safely
Sometimes in heavy structure, its your only option
Its a RUSH of note fishing drags that heavy, like a 4 Round Heavy weight bout

Cons:
The potential for tackle failure and pulled hooks, or worse
The risk o the fish fighting harder, and just diving straight into the bricks
Giving yourself a heart attack due to exertion!

The alternative is fishing much lighter drags, and not putting as much acid on the fish from the start as a technique
Pros:
Can allow the fish to swim away from structure and into lesser hectic water, as they don't feel as alarmed under the lighter drags
Can allow one to potentially use lighter tackle to target big fish

Cons:
You can get spooled in a hurry by a bus!!
The potential for a bi fish running you a longer way out, then cutting you off can mean a GT swimming around with a couple hundred metres of braid hanging from his Gob...
Long fights on these fish exhaust them, so the potential to become shark bait is bigger after prolonged fights...

So there are two schools of thought, and each one has its place in certain conditions, certain fish, and on certain tackle... the only way to figure out which works is to get out and test them in as many situations as possible!
There are no hard and fast rules, which is what makes this such a great passion and addiction!

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 Posted: Wed Nov 12th, 2008 02:26 pm
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carcharias
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LOl.Nepps.
You learn pretty fast when you get smoked by those Northern Moz busses. I nearly kakked my pants when the first one smashed the popper.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 12th, 2008 11:42 pm
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Ianzo
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Mana: 
Thanx for all the help guys. does the same general trend of drag apply for jigging down 40m below. I guess so.

So how would I go about setting a 7 kg drag. Pull it with a scale or what?

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 Posted: Thu Nov 13th, 2008 01:02 pm
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Nepptune
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Mana: 
Ian - The closer you are to teh bottom, generally the heavier you wanna set your drag, as you want to prevent the fish from reefing you...

To set your drag, the bes thing is to get a cloth bag of somesort, and add some weights in the form of sinkers, or dive belt weights or anything really, chuck it on a scale and weigh it till you get your desired weight.

Then set your rod up, and thrad the leader through the guides and then tie it to the bag of weights.

Now what you want is to find a little drop off.... doesn't have to be super high, even just a set of 2 or 3 stairs and set the weights down below you, and stand on the elevated section.
Then slowly lift the weights up.... obviously be careful not to high stick!!!
Most jigging rods, with the correct action, will work best between 20 and 55 degrees, with 30 to 45 being optimal, so work on that... you should find the "comfort zone" of the rod, which will feel best to you....
Then you need to adjust your drag so that its just not slipping when you lift the weights off the floor... On the Stella, it is incredibly smooth, so you will see line slip slowly and smoothly until you tighten up to where its just slipping smoothly when you bounce the weight...

Then you are set!

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 Posted: Thu Nov 13th, 2008 05:29 pm
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Ianzo
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Mana: 
Thanx nepptune.

This really helps a lot. appreciate it.

Will be coming with more questions sooon!

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 Posted: Fri Nov 14th, 2008 02:18 pm
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ChrisW
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Mana: 
Good advice from both Nepps and Carch. Not much more to add except to say the Albright knot is knot what you want for popping otherwise you won't have meany guides left. You need to learn one of the streamlined knots - PR, Mid knot, GT, FG, SG all these obscure Japanese casting knots.

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 Posted: Fri Nov 14th, 2008 02:46 pm
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royboy
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Excellent advice Chris - Andre showed me how to do the PR last weekend, so I will be putting it into practice (lots, as I have more thumbs than fingers......)

Cheers, Roy

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 Posted: Fri Nov 14th, 2008 02:57 pm
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Nepptune
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Mana: 
Chris - Best of luck at Ranfurly this week with the new rods, looking well forward to hearing reports and seeing pics... Saw last weeks reprots, and plenty 30 plus Yellowtail, monstr Bass and Puka for you guys to tangle with!!

Stay safe!

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 Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 01:47 pm
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ChrisW
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Nepptune wrote: Chris - Best of luck at Ranfurly this week with the new rods, looking well forward to hearing reports and seeing pics... Saw last weeks reprots, and plenty 30 plus Yellowtail, monstr Bass and Puka for you guys to tangle with!!

Stay safe!

Back home now with stories of 30+kg Kingies and 50+kg monster sea Bass!  All on jigs! ::S.  Abbreviated trip report looming with pics.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 02:01 pm
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Nepptune
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Mana: 
Chris - Welcome back, and we are looking VERY forward to the trip report and pics!!!! Can't wait to see those load pics on the JSR450 on that Bass!!!

Cheers
Nepps

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