Commercial marketing of grey imported tackle

Long John

New member
Hi guys and dolls. Firstly I am a newby to the forum, only discovered it yesterday and must say, what a surprise that it has remained hidden for so long. I can see that I have a lot of reading (and learning) to do.

One of the first observations that struck me is that there seems to be a few misguided individuals who use the forum to commercialy promote and advertise ostensibly "grey" or parralel imported fishing tackle, lures and accesories.  This is clearly being done without the knowledge, approval and sanction of the official sole importers and distributors of certain brands. In other words, using this forum to advertise their untoward practises, for free.

I am pretty sure that such importers and distributers will not be happy to see their branded ranges undercut in this way by unscrupulous moonlighters, who do not carry the cost of branding, marketing, and after sales services and servicing guarantees of their leading brands.

It should also go without saying that leading retailers such as Mias would not be happy to be undercut by moonlighters advertising on the forum, run out of such moonlighter's garages. The importers and retailers play an important part to firstly bring leading brands to South Africa, and the retailers distributing such tackle accross the country to be within reach of all us enthusiastic anglers. And that while Mias even pays to advertise on the front page of the forum.

In my humble opinion the forum administration and moderators should keep a lookout for such unscrupulous operators, and moderate and delete where they see the infringement of trademarks and sole distributorships before this problem becomes out of hand.  I am sure that the intention of the trading posts and opportunities to sell and trade were meant for amateur enthusiasts to swop and trade tackle to step up or expand - and not for pirate traders to hijack the forum and advertise their wares for free.

The option for legal recourse against such transgressors also always remains an option.

I am otherwise very impressed, keep up the good work, sharing advice and experiences, this is a wonderful forum and I hope I will learn much from it and all the members.
 

HEIHACHI

Sealiner
hi longjohn and welcome to sealine, hope you enjoy your stay.

i see the point you are trying to bring across, i have been a member on this site for a while now and i cant remember seeing any "moonlighters" that you speak of, i know that some of the guys have much smaller operations than mias and it is for that reason that they have a really good relationship with some of the members as we can speak to the man and not the name. for example khan on this site is a fantastic guy running a small enterprise it is for that reason that his overheads are not as high as the more well known establishments and therefore offer sealiners a more competative rate. after all we as anglers are always complaining about the killer prices at the tackle shops so why not support a fellow sealiner that is running a legitamate business. its like saying you would rather drive 20kms to a fancy store to buy a R10 can of coke where you could buy the same coke from the vendor at your door for R6.

please bro dont get me the wrong way i am not picking a fight its just different strokes for different folks
 

Polychaete

Senior Member
As far as I'm concerned were in a free market, buy it here, buy it from the agent,buy it grey, buy it anywhere in the world where you get the best deal is what I say.

The locals charge enough as it is, more competition from everywhere is what we need.

And I'm not even talking about the service we get here.
 

muhaha

Senior Member
I have NOT come accross a notable numbers of so called "moonlighters" and I am a regular visitor. If they have access to the products and are able to sell at good prices etc i dont see why we shouldnt support the smaller outfitter.

It is the __manufacturer/distributors__ issue if they cannot control who their products get pushed to not the guy buying the stock to re-sell. Certainly if you can save on overheads why not, you cannot compare watermelons with apples. Do you think the guy would be selling out of his garage/home if he could afford the overheads? Please...

Your comments are wild and inflammatory. Lets face it everybodys gotta eat and feed their families at the end of the month, and for you to come waltz in here and try and strong arm and throw around terms such as "legal recourse" on what you consider to be "moonlighters" is absolutely ridiculous.

You want to create the same situation as Telkom where they own majority share in the undersea fiber cables connecting South Africa to the internet, they are the monopoly and this is why we pay though our ears for internet access. They are the monopoly on the fixed line infastructure accross SA, which leaves the man on the street screwed because he can only get his land line from Telkom.


If there is some sort of factual defenite breach of the law then your post could maybe be justified, however i feel you are grabbing at straws.

This is the exact type of attitude that will cause me and my fishing buddies to boycott whatever organization/business you are affiliated with. Dont bother responding to my post, i couldnt care less.
 

killy

New member
dear long john

i personally have more respect for a person that is doing a honest living and driving prices down and passing sealine members huge discounts that large fat cat retailers that profiteer certain items by over 100 percent and choke the lives of poor fisherman.there is however a fine line between earning a decent living and exploitation as long as trademark ,copywrite rites has been met .there is nothing wrong with parallel or grey imports.i salute people like mr khan and they are my heroes.                            killy
 

Long John

New member
To suffice on this matter, and regardless if any bootlegger is anybody's hero for busting copyrights, sole import rights and distributerships, I am sure the owner of this forum and the moonlighter are opening themselves up for litigation if they firstly market such services on the forum, and on the other hand allow this forum to be used for marketing such infringements of propriety.

Can you imagine Tatlow and Pledger tolerating some grey importer and moonlighter start advertising grey imported Shimano products, or goods that "fell of a truck" or "dissapeared in bond" at Johannesburg Airport, to turn up here on the forum.

Next time those of you go into a fine respectable tackle store, that does the right things right, spend money on marketing, distributing, merchandising, and honouring guarantees with no qualms - remember to tell the proprieter exactly what you think of him and point out where you can get such products much cheaper.

And when the respectable retailers and suppliers have dried up, and the moonlighters are long gone, dont complain if we have to suffice with inferior antiquated equipment again.

Tight lines - hope you get the big one this weekend.
 

neilg

Sealiner
Long John

it's obvious you make a living off selling or importing tackle, I would bet importing.

so you say you can sue me for "importing" 20 reels (of the brand you import) and then selling it at a better price than your agents do ?
Well where's me Credit Card then, lemme get some tackle and cut your prices for you ...

Ever heard of HIFI CORP ???? = GREY IMPORTS (well mostly)

See you in court.

Now go away and don't come back please.
 

Long John

New member
[color=#006600]neilg[/color] wrote:
Long John

it's obvious you make a living off selling or importing tackle, I would bet importing.

so you say you can sue me for "importing" 20 reels (of the brand you import) and then selling it at a better price than your agents do ?
Well where's me Credit Card then, lemme get some tackle and cut your prices for you ...

Ever heard of HIFI CORP ???? = GREY IMPORTS (well mostly)

See you in court.

Now go away and don't come back please.

Yes, heard of HiFi Corp. They charge you a R350-00 fee to take your product in for repair under guarantee. Just to look at it.

They also specialise in importing into South Africa electronic lines and IT (computer products) that have been discontinued abroad, or which is just about to dissapear. In other words dumping the worlds rubbish in Africa.

Sorry to dissapoint you, no I import nothing, just a simple fisherman like you, and by the looks of things have caught many and more bigger fish and posted much less than you!
 

royboy

Sealiner
This is not Targeted at ALL importers. Some yes, not all.

Dear Long John, I hear you BUT......BUT, I have BETTER response buying spares through Shimano UK (no 6mth waiting list for little plastic gear) - Yup 2 Days door-to-door. This means that my reel was working 5 months and 28 days SOONER than our "respectable sole" importers and distributers of certain products" could get me fishing again. That is sad. Times are a'changing Sir. Crap importer aftersales support = NO CUSTOMER SUPPORT.

The problem here is the word "sole". Competitive practice favours the consumer - and the retailer.....and the importer....IF HE DOES IT RIGHT, he grows marketshare - if not? People like me find suppliers who do! Simple. And the famous commercial equation (P=R-C) works better for those who do what they do for the CUSTOMER'S interest AHEAD of their own! That grows marketshare and profitability.

The Internet is a wonderful thing. It means that people like you and me now have a choice - and we have a mechanism to validate whether these "sole" importers are reaming us or not? (figure - lubricated or not?). For example, if it is a better buying experience (read cheaper) for me to purchase something from the US or Europe, ship it to SA myself as a 1-off (no commercial interest), pay the import duty and relevent taxes and BE HAPPIER? Something not so lekker here? That implies that they are: A - Screwing us? B - Hugely Ineffective?

"Sole, respectable importer? Mmmmmmm"

Clearly, buying from reputable INTERNATIONAL tackle dealer falls outside "Grey Goods"....yes bypassing the "sole" respectable bla bla bla importer who is raping his customer (the tackle dealer and further down the food chain - Us) but for heaven's sake Get Real!!!! They either have to Wake up, OR somebody else will eat into their marketshare. They cannot keep trading in a "false" market. Period.

Make no mistake, I DO support the local Tackle shops but I research before I buy.

In our mother tongue...... I don't get screwed as often as I used to.
 

Long John

New member
Royboy, please dont misunderstand me, I agree with you whole heartedly.

I do exactly like you, have to count my ever diminishing pennies twice like everyone. Yes when I travel or know of someone who is, I also have them bring something, usualy fishing gear back for me. Have done so from the UK and the USA. Often a reel is half to two thirds cheaper if I buy it this way. Otherwise I go to Solly's and negotiate the best deal I can get.

But that is my personal initiative and nobody can hold it against me. I also think you are prudent for going about your business exactly the way you are and see nothing wrong with anyone else doing so.

But I will say it again, and those who disagree with me, wish me away, or curse me for holding moralistic and ethical views - bad luck you are stuck with me - I'm going nowhere!

The forum shouldnt allow clearly pirate and grey product traders to advertise their wares and services here, at the cost of the industry, of equipment of dubious origin (maybe fallen of a truck or even stolen) with no back up and guarantees. If found out that such goods were obtained under dubious circumstances and proven, the forum owner can even be held liable.

And I will gladly disclose the reason for my concern, a friend and leading importer who recently lost a substantial consignment of equipment at notorios Johannesburg International Airport was recently approached by a member of the public to honour a repair/replacement under guarantee of such equipment of which the serial numbers were of those that dissapeared.

My opinion is simply, viva the forum! - but we should not allow unscrupulous persons to use it to destroy the organised tackle industry, and pass their dubious wares in this fashion.

Implications are perhaps too complicated for some to understand.     

 
 

flippy

Sealiner
can everybody just avoid this guy like the plague,clearly a lawyer sent by someone who knows someone who has an agenda against sealine,i say all posts from said person be deleted and said person not be allowed to partake in anything,'you going nowhere',what you own this forum,ban this guy,everybody send a pm to relevant persons and byebye mr lawyer trying to stir things up so that he has a case
 

Long John

New member
[color=#006600]Hooked[/color] wrote:
[color=#006600]Hooked[/color] wrote:
@Long John , which products do you see on this forum are "Grey Imports"?

Hi

Question repeated , can u answer?

I do not want to stir a hornet's nest - and that was never my intention. Neither am I an importer, distributer, or a lawyer.

The "advertisement" has been removed/deleted, probably by the individual because he realises the implications.

Apologise to those whom I might have offended, or those who may not have understood the reasoning of my gripe on this thread.

Now lets get on with it and catch fish ! :wfish
 

Pylstert

Sealiner
I have no problem with someone doing their own imports and selling at cheaper than local agent prices, there are certain braid line brands that you can get for nealry 1/2 the price on ebayn etc, but consignments disappearing at the airport and then reapearing, that's theft and the culprits need to be prosecuted
 

Bonez

New member
Long John's comments are so silly I'm laughing my head off.

We all seek a good deal on everything, especially with the rising prices of fishing tackle and equipment and when good honest people, like Khan, and Mr. Mohammed from cheapest fishing tackle, and the other guys i'm not familiar with comes along with great deals (more like rendering a much valuable service to us fishermen),they get unfailry scruternized.

I personally have been dealing with Mr. Mohammed for some time now and I have been getting huge discounts on everything that I buy. Hell, his normal prices are lower than huge retail stores. It doesn't mean that it's grey stuff. Everything that I bought from him has been of high quality and had never had to complain about anything.

I get good prices and excellent quality and customer service, why should we protest against cheap prices, isn't It what we always wanted?
 

Tsa

Senior Member
Hi LJ - Welcome to sealine and always great pi**ing everyone of with the 1st post - seems to be the norm these days hehehe :)

Without stepping on anyones toes and seeing that you seem to know a lot about this - What do you constitute as a grey/inferior product and how do you "spot" it?

I'm always for a a good deal - nevermind what it is :) and if there is after sales service that goes with it, even more so! Whats wrong with that?

PS: Thats the one thing I have to give the UK - competition in everything - energy suppliers,retail, etc etc. If I dont like you I'll make a advert and air it on TV saying that my prices ARE better than yours. If only that can happen in SA one day!
 

neilg

Sealiner
Big difference between a "grey"/parallel imported product and something that's stolen ... you should have said that in the first place !

U know that you have now put every single person that has ever sold anything on this forum under suspicion ...

A fee to fix something under warranty at Hifi Corp, well it's never happened to me ! And I have returned 2 products ... maybe it's your face ...

You say "They also specialise in importing into South Africa electronic lines and IT (computer products) that have been discontinued abroad, or which is just about to dissapear. In other words dumping the worlds rubbish in Africa."
First of all, there is nothing wrong with their products, you can also find some of the EXACT same products in other chain stores !
Second, how do you import IT ? IT = Information Technology, not computer products. Hifi Corp stocks a small line of computers and laptops, a few of them are from local sources.

As for flooding the market with "retired" products, welcome to Africa boet. (Citi Golf rings a bell)

And while we talking IT, sorry I mean computers, did you know that a laptop manufactured today is probably discontinued tomorrow ! That goes for most computer equipment.

Go to another IT store - one of the big chain stores (I'm not going into names) and go write down a few make and model numbers, go search the net, I bet you most are discontinued !

You started this thread cause you, a friend or a family members is/was affected by another company that has the ability to do better business ... well that's what I think anyway.

You say "Sorry to dissapoint you, no I import nothing, just a simple fisherman like you, and by the looks of things have caught many and more bigger fish and posted much less than you!"
Probably true, you have probably caught a few bigger fish than me, and probably more aswell ... now what does that have to do with this subject ?
And as for me making more posts than you, well first of all, you joined 30 Oct 2008, I joined 17 Jan 2008, therefore I should have more posts than you, second, what does that have to do with anything ? Maybe I have more posts because I've offered assistance and advice to more people ...

It seems you one of those I know better than you, my car is better than yours, I've caught bigger fish than you, I've caught more fish than you type of people. I'm one of those what I know is good enough, my car is good for me, I've caught fish kind of people ! The only competition I'm in is the one with myself, but it's clearly you against the world ... is your name not TUPAC ?

You say further
"The forum shouldnt allow clearly pirate and grey product traders to advertise their wares and services here, at the cost of the industry, of equipment of dubious origin (maybe fallen of a truck or even stolen) with no back up and guarantees. If found out that such goods were obtained under dubious circumstances and proven, the forum owner can even be held liable.

And I will gladly disclose the reason for my concern, a friend and leading importer who recently lost a substantial consignment of equipment at notorios Johannesburg International Airport was recently approached by a member of the public to honour a repair/replacement under guarantee of such equipment of which the serial numbers were of those that dissapeared.
My opinion is simply, viva the forum! - but we should not allow unscrupulous persons to use it to destroy the organised tackle industry, and pass their dubious wares in this fashion.
Implications are perhaps too complicated for some to understand. "

why should this forum not allow someone who does grey importing to advertise on it ?
Tell me, is there a new law against grey imports that I haven't heard about ?
And to the others that you are referring to, please tell us who it is that is dealing in the "stolen" goods, then we know not to deal with them. Or are you just blowing bubbles ?
I do however agree with you on the stolen goods issue.
This was also the case with Leupold riflescopes that was stolen at the airport, I think last year. Reading your post again on the theft issue, well I'm pretty sure you are referring to the Leupold issue...(am I right?)
BUT are you trying to say that the "forum owner" should now investigate every person who wants to sell something on this forum ? Then ofcourse there should be HUGE legal implications for the trading sections in the newspapers, Autodealers guide and other sites on the internet, what about sites like bidorbuy ?

And since you are saying all of this about support, how would be go about verifying whether something advertised on this site is stolen, pirate, grey or "normal" ?

Did you know that "pirate goods" have been available all over the world for the last 50 years ? Some are even better (and cheaper) than the geniune parts, but ofcourse some are not. By that I don't mean pirate DVDs I mean pirate pistons, pirate gaskets, pirate dragwashers, or should I say replacement pistons, replacement gaskets and BETTER drag washers.

And after all of this you go and say this
"I do not want to stir a hornet's nest - and that was never my intention. Neither am I an importer, distributer, or a lawyer."

NOw that just BLOWS MY MIND !
This means you don't have ANY FACTS, you were just throwing around accusations left right and centre, accusations of people on this forum dealing in stolen goods, threats that the forum owner can be held accountable and things about members being "evil grey importers" who are forcing the sole importers to review their pricing because they now suddenly have competition ...

and ofcourse all this is very bad, especially for the anglers that might save a few rands by dealing with these "evil low life but business savvy" grey importers.

and ofcourse there is the warranty issue, especially when buying a second hand reel ... IT'S SECOND HAND, THEY DON'T NORMALLY COME WITH WARRANTIES.

I just realised something, you right, IT'S TO COMPLICATED FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND !

Weird how you wanted to drop the grey imports subject once asked a direct question by another forum member ... ISN'T IT.

But wait theres more
you say (in your first post as A NEW MEMBER OF SEALINE)
"This is clearly being done without the knowledge, approval and sanction of the official sole importers and distributors of certain brands."
Do you actually mean to tell us that we need permission from the SOLE IMPORTER (another term for I can charge what I want, I HAVE THE MONOPOLY) if we choose to compete against them (by buying from other shops overseas) ?

Can I please ask you TWO questions (if you don't mind)

WHAT IS YOUR CONNECTION TO THIS WHOLE ISSUE ?

SO WHAT DO YOU DO FOR A LIVING

Come clean with us, you threw the carrot, now us donkeys went and ate it ...
 
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