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LIVEBAIT TRACES FOR EDS  Rate Topic 
 
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 Posted: Tue Sep 3rd, 2019 12:43 pm
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Ben REINERS
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Mana: 
Just a word of advice in advance....
This is not a topic open for discussion to discredit or criticize any angler's trace/rigs or his/her in-ability to catch fish, so please no negative comment, rather comment & contribute positively.

Neither do I need advice, as I have my own method which has yieled me good successes, but I am merely intrigued as a fellow angler who has seen(and so have you guys) so many different livebait traces along the KZN coast & Cape waters used by fellow anglers.

Especially during the winter seasons, used by my own friends, other anglers, on the web, Youtube, angling magazines, fishing forums, etc, & it will truely be facinating to hear from our fellow anglers what their best
trace/s look like, & reasoning behind it.

Believe me, there is always a reason for an angler why he does s.thing a certain way, sometimes I think they might be better politicians than our government cause the way they can debate, reason & argue with overwhelming persuasion & sonetimes mathematics thrown in is astonishing.
(I think you can understand now why I said no negative comment on someone elses traces!!)

This might be a very old or boring topic, & one that has seen literally 100's of different styles, ways, methods & traces, with each its own reasoning behind it.

To make it simple, lets see pics of your favorite livebait trace, mono/fluoro used, trace length, hook types, sizes, how many you use, & how you rig up your live mullet, shad etc, be it a throw or slide trace for targeting garrick, kob & GT's. but not sharks.
I dont care getting bitten off by a shark while targeting these eds.
Pse dont post other angler's pics, web pics or traces/rigs from other sources, but rather your own, & what you use or believe in.

I have'nt taken pics, but my old favorite trace for targeting garrick & using live mullets from 15cm up to even 30cm, was 1 x 5 or 6/0 Mustad (hook size depends on size of livebait & target specie) firmly under the skin behind his head after threading the trace line with a bait needle from the dorsal fin. This on a 1m mono clear or white line on a running sinker shorter than the trace.

Then tie a overhand loop & place it over its tail & pull it till it sits snugly (not to tight) which will act as the "shock-knot" to prevent the hook pulling out on the action of the cast. It actually carries the weight of the livie during casting, but you are very limited ito your effort to obtain distance.
But, garrick & kob feeds close to the "gutter" where mullet try hide away from the preds, hence no real distance needed.
In my younger years I used a treble instead of the J-hook, but soon had more confidence in using 1 x J hook(old brown mustad hooks).
I've since moved on to circles when they started to become popular, or still using
J-hooks, depending on the livebait size & what specie I am targeting.

I have seen many traces, & 1 that stood out for me used by shore anglers was almost like an off shore cuda trace, with the 1st hook (a treble) hooked under the anal fin of a live shad, the middle J-hook pinned under the skin & on the side of the fish, with the 3rd J-hook in the lip. All these hooks tied onto mono of about 20kg.
This is then slid on the non-return clip.
Now if you had completed this rig, you will see that your livebait seems "back to front" (as if trawling)....& will lead to ask yourself how will this livebait swim freely or forward without being hindered & still catch fish ??!!
Well, on the KZN South coast it was used by quite a few anglers....& best part of it all with success landing their garrick.
I was suprised, but clearly the anglers were doing it as if a sworn-by method.

Now I can argue or critisize this method as much as I want to, saying it looks "up side down" , will the livebait swim free, will it breath properly, will it stay alive for a long time, give my negative thoughts & comment, but the result ultimately was that they successfully landed their garrick with the treble firmly hooked in the mouth near the throat & the 2nd hook slso in the mouth.

So ja, I have now seen it all......or so I thought.



::respekt:::respekt:::respekt:::respekt:

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 Posted: Tue Sep 3rd, 2019 01:18 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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Joined: Tue Apr 29th, 2008
Location: Heidelberg, South Africa
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Boat: Kosi cat 16; 2x 60 mercs
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Mana: 
a interesting topic indeed.
I have even changed my traces over the years.
what worked good was changed.....did it work better?
not really.

I think we do get too technical at times.
instead we should just go fishing and wonder about nothing else.

if the bait is in the right place, and the game fish is hungry, then nothing should deter him from having a go at your live bait.

but if a trace looks like a hedgehog or ystervark, and the game fish is not that hungry, he might have a 2nd look at the bait before having a go.

the main thing is that a live bait should look natural in the water.
so it all is a balancing act!!!
one cannot fit 2x 10 o hooks on a small mullet of 15 cm it does not look right.
the weight of the hooks will be so heavy, that the bait fish will not even be able to swim.

placing of hooks in the bait fish is also a topic for discussion.
ideally one would want the bait fish to stay alive for a long time.
thus keeping the head into the current.
but, bait fish, shad included always swim with the current and not against it.
thus a unnatural action.
it will work better when there is no current, which will allow the bait fish to swim where it wants to go.

one also needs to keep in mind, that certain game fish will swallow head first.
others tails first and others just don't give a dam!!!


my comment not finished so will edit later on, have to go

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 Posted: Wed Sep 11th, 2019 02:23 pm
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Ben REINERS
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Joined: Tue Feb 16th, 2010
Location: MELMOTH - KZN, South Africa
Posts: 1620
Equipment: All sorts............
Best Catch: Giant Kingfish 35 Kg - 1996.09 @ Kosi Mouth ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: Mostly KZN North Coast
Boat: Not yet !!
Club: Nope
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Mana: 
@ Willem.....dit lyk my jy is die enigste een wat dink dis n interessante topic.

Die topic was bloot om te hoor & sien hoe redeneer ons mede hengelaars & wat werk vir hulle.

Daars baie "geskryf" maar min gesè tov die onderwerp op site, & ek neem aan dat hengelaars is vd idee dat dit n vanselfsprekende onderwerp is.

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 Posted: Wed Sep 11th, 2019 04:50 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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Location: Heidelberg, South Africa
Posts: 4011
Equipment: ekt geleer net die beste werk.............................
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Favorite Fishing Spot: noord van die tugela is goed genoeg
Boat: Kosi cat 16; 2x 60 mercs
Club: nooooit nie
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Mana: 
Ben REINERS wrote:
@ Willem.....dit lyk my jy is die enigste een wat dink dis n interessante topic.

Die topic was bloot om te hoor & sien hoe redeneer ons mede hengelaars & wat werk vir hulle.

Daars baie "geskryf" maar min gesè tov die onderwerp op site, & ek neem aan dat hengelaars is vd idee dat dit n vanselfsprekende onderwerp is.


Hi Ben

ja skuus man, moes nog klaar getik het....en toe breek die hel los op kantoor!!!
sal later die onderwerp verder bespreek.
ja die roof kykers gaan reg staan, dis duidelik!!!

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 Posted: Thu Sep 12th, 2019 07:08 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Joined: Tue Apr 29th, 2008
Location: Heidelberg, South Africa
Posts: 4011
Equipment: ekt geleer net die beste werk.............................
Best Catch: eish waar begin ek?
Favorite Fishing Spot: noord van die tugela is goed genoeg
Boat: Kosi cat 16; 2x 60 mercs
Club: nooooit nie
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Mana: 
I have'nt taken pics, but my old favorite trace for targeting garrick & using live mullets from 15cm up to even 30cm, was 1 x 5 or 6/0 Mustad (hook size depends on size of livebait & target specie) firmly under the skin behind his head after threading the trace line with a bait needle from the dorsal fin. This on a 1m mono clear or white line on a running sinker shorter than the trace.

"ive seen this trace, at tugela, way back about 20 years ago!!!!, nee shucks nearly 25 years ago.

it must have been yours :)"

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 Posted: Thu Sep 12th, 2019 07:09 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Joined: Tue Apr 29th, 2008
Location: Heidelberg, South Africa
Posts: 4011
Equipment: ekt geleer net die beste werk.............................
Best Catch: eish waar begin ek?
Favorite Fishing Spot: noord van die tugela is goed genoeg
Boat: Kosi cat 16; 2x 60 mercs
Club: nooooit nie
Status: 
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Mana: 
Then tie a overhand loop & place it over its tail & pull it till it sits snugly (not to tight) which will act as the "shock-knot" to prevent the hook pulling out on the action of the cast. It actually carries the weight of the livie during casting, but you are very limited ito your effort to obtain distance.

"this one I would like to see, there are other ways too, but these are trade secrets!!!!
do we post them here?"

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 Posted: Thu Sep 12th, 2019 07:14 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Joined: Tue Apr 29th, 2008
Location: Heidelberg, South Africa
Posts: 4011
Equipment: ekt geleer net die beste werk.............................
Best Catch: eish waar begin ek?
Favorite Fishing Spot: noord van die tugela is goed genoeg
Boat: Kosi cat 16; 2x 60 mercs
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Mana: 
in the old days...… we made slide traces with a adjustable trace length.
we would tie a figure of 8 knot onto the shank of the one hook.

this will obviously work most of the time when fishing.
I was advised to move away from this trace, due to the target specie.
Garrick is fine with this trace.

any k9 typed fish is a bigger risk, should the fish byte down on a knot under tension.
kingfish especially byte very hard, and any knot under strain, will pop if bitten on.

so, my traces is sometimes species dependent

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 Posted: Thu Sep 12th, 2019 02:21 pm
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Ben REINERS
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Joined: Tue Feb 16th, 2010
Location: MELMOTH - KZN, South Africa
Posts: 1620
Equipment: All sorts............
Best Catch: Giant Kingfish 35 Kg - 1996.09 @ Kosi Mouth ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: Mostly KZN North Coast
Boat: Not yet !!
Club: Nope
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Mana: 
willem wikkel spies wrote:
I have'nt taken pics, but my old favorite trace for targeting garrick & using live mullets from 15cm up to even 30cm, was 1 x 5 or 6/0 Mustad (hook size depends on size of livebait & target specie) firmly under the skin behind his head after threading the trace line with a bait needle from the dorsal fin. This on a 1m mono clear or white line on a running sinker shorter than the trace.

"ive seen this trace, at tugela, way back about 20 years ago!!!!, nee shucks nearly 25 years ago.

it must have been yours :)"


Natuurlik was dit myne & dit het gewerk, werk nou nog.;)
Is traces trades secrets.....nee wat...hengel is n sport gedeel deur miljoene, so dis iets wat alledaags bespreek word, maar ek as persoon stel altyd belang om te weet wat werk vir n ander, sy denk rigting, sy sukses ens. Maar ja, ons het seker meer roofkykers as bydraes.

Last edited on Thu Sep 12th, 2019 02:30 pm by Ben REINERS

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 Posted: Thu Sep 12th, 2019 08:45 pm
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Dr halibut hoffman
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Mana: 
My Gallery: 
I want to learn from you guys :)
Why does one use a shorter hook trace sometimes and when does one use a longer one. I like the buried hook line too like you say WWS, but only really use it for the smaller leeries that like to play with and drop a bait, generally I found it doesn't matter much to get too fancy as even just through the lips goes down the hatch more often that not.

I have a pretty good success rate with livebaits, even though sometimes I choose not to use them as the sharks just end up wasting my expensive tuna circles. Also for leeries demon i think they are called fine wire circles by mustad are fine. I'm still learning all the ins and outs but over the years livebaits have worked ja to target good fish.. I've hooked a few things that I could not stop on livies haha. I've hooked a bunch of fish that are breeders too and have gone back, which is why I prefer circles which work great for this.

Ja keep it coming guys.

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 Posted: Fri Sep 13th, 2019 11:31 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Joined: Tue Apr 29th, 2008
Location: Heidelberg, South Africa
Posts: 4011
Equipment: ekt geleer net die beste werk.............................
Best Catch: eish waar begin ek?
Favorite Fishing Spot: noord van die tugela is goed genoeg
Boat: Kosi cat 16; 2x 60 mercs
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Mana: 
"Why does one use a shorter hook trace sometimes and when does one use a longer one?"

FKY!!!
ek weet self nie.
but ja, depending on target specie, traces needs to be a certain length!!!

so for live bait I still use different lengths of traces.
I just feel that the bait fish must be able to move about a bit more, to look more natural.

but you also do get fish that are really shy and clever.
so trace should be shorter at times.....

when no current is present, I find that the live bait do get tangled quicker
so a longer trace and the live bait should stay away further from the sinker.
I started off at about 900mm trace length "live bait"
I now stand at about 1,8 meters.
I have also gone longer, where I need it.

I like using 2x hooks, its not about keeping all fish, its about hooking them!!!!
I have send some nice kingies back with hooks still lodged.
rather that then hurting them further.

so when current is present is still use the 1,8 meter traces.
the current will keep the shad away from the sinker in any case.

hook positions is also another aspect.
we need to take note, that fish are not abundant as in the past.
so presentation is of utmost importance.

another aspect is, we miss the smaller fish, the ones that still learn and play with their food.
big fish tend to engulf the whole live bait easily.
and hooks stick easily.

getting to baited hooks, traces are normally shorter, around the 500-700 mm mark.
I do use clip in sinkers at times. so they cannot be too long.
when throwing a big dead bait, I do not use clip in sinkers.
in any case, the bait does not need to be 200meters out.
just off the lip is ok. and this means a wash, so a longer trace is advised.

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 Posted: Fri Sep 13th, 2019 11:35 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Joined: Tue Apr 29th, 2008
Location: Heidelberg, South Africa
Posts: 4011
Equipment: ekt geleer net die beste werk.............................
Best Catch: eish waar begin ek?
Favorite Fishing Spot: noord van die tugela is goed genoeg
Boat: Kosi cat 16; 2x 60 mercs
Club: nooooit nie
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Mana: 
I do not use floro lines!!!!!!

I use normal maxima 0,85mm at times and 1mm.
but they tend to be a bit soft too.
my previous trip I used maxima and got taxed badly, lost most of my hooks.

so I went back to sportex line,
0,90mm and 1,1mm
with this line I managed to land the tax men and had them on much longer at times.

on the st lucia tread, I fished a whole week with maxima and did not get 1x fish.
the last day I went back to my sportex and got a Garrick.

so, when fish are hungry, line color does not matter!!!!!!

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 Posted: Fri Sep 13th, 2019 04:02 pm
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Ben REINERS
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Joined: Tue Feb 16th, 2010
Location: MELMOTH - KZN, South Africa
Posts: 1620
Equipment: All sorts............
Best Catch: Giant Kingfish 35 Kg - 1996.09 @ Kosi Mouth ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: Mostly KZN North Coast
Boat: Not yet !!
Club: Nope
Status: 
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Mana: 
Enige spesifieke rede hoekom jy nie fluoro gebruik nie & wats jou review tov Sportex lyn ?

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 Posted: Fri Sep 13th, 2019 04:09 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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Joined: Tue Apr 29th, 2008
Location: Heidelberg, South Africa
Posts: 4011
Equipment: ekt geleer net die beste werk.............................
Best Catch: eish waar begin ek?
Favorite Fishing Spot: noord van die tugela is goed genoeg
Boat: Kosi cat 16; 2x 60 mercs
Club: nooooit nie
Status: 
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Mana: 
Ben REINERS wrote:
Enige spesifieke rede hoekom jy nie fluoro gebruik nie & wats jou review tov Sportex lyn ?

nee glad nie.
dis wel n baie harde lyn.
die ou diepsee hengel lyn, en dan is dit nog pienk ook.
en cheap.
1mm maxima kos R180 by st lucia vir n 100meter rol.

sportex, dink ek is R 35 PER 100meter

so ek ruil stroppe baie vining sonder enige worries

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 Posted: Fri Sep 13th, 2019 06:37 pm
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Ben REINERS
Sealiner


Joined: Tue Feb 16th, 2010
Location: MELMOTH - KZN, South Africa
Posts: 1620
Equipment: All sorts............
Best Catch: Giant Kingfish 35 Kg - 1996.09 @ Kosi Mouth ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: Mostly KZN North Coast
Boat: Not yet !!
Club: Nope
Status: 
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Mana: 
Ek onthou dat die witlyn eers baie later by my n opsie geword het vir tracelyn.
My oorl. pa het geglo in sy Maxima ultra green, van sy hooflyn tot sy trace lyn & hy was ewe suksesvol.
Ek dink eerlik dat n mens geneig is om te vinnig vat plek te vind aan wetenskaplike feite, & argumente soos die kleur spektrum lyn wat vinniger sy kleur verloor eerder as die ou betroubare werk esel.

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 Posted: Sun Sep 15th, 2019 08:15 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Joined: Tue Apr 29th, 2008
Location: Heidelberg, South Africa
Posts: 4011
Equipment: ekt geleer net die beste werk.............................
Best Catch: eish waar begin ek?
Favorite Fishing Spot: noord van die tugela is goed genoeg
Boat: Kosi cat 16; 2x 60 mercs
Club: nooooit nie
Status: 
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Mana: 
Ek stem 100% saam.

dis nes die plasing van jou hoeke.
natuurlik target specie dependent!!!

die manne van ultimate angling is oortuig daarvan dat n salmon kop eerste sluk!!!
alhoewel die vangste anders bewys het.

en dat Garrick eers n entjie loop, stop, skubbe af haal en dan begin sluk!!!!
vangste het anders bewys

en Kingies, nie worry nie!!!
hulle smash n baitfish in sy **** in!!!
en wurg hom af, in enige rigting
vangste het dit ook bewys.

so waar laat dit ons, ons wil te tegnies raak!!!!
sure, sekere dinge moet jy weet.
natuur die water kan lees!!!
die kos op die regte manier te present.

en die tyd in te sit om daai vise te vang.

ek moet seker kyk om n paar kiekies op te sit.
ek wag nog vir daai 1 van jou oor die overhand knot op aas vis wat jy cast

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