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Can too thin braid cause line wraps?  Rate Topic 
 
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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 01:41 pm
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Pylstert
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Mana: 
Hi,
I just threw away 3 lures and am ready to sell all this spinning *** and go back to multipliers they cast further in any case.

I have stepped down to thinner braid on two setups hoping it will improve casting - down to 20lb. Reels are a sustain and symetre both rods have k series guides. I cursed from beginning to end. Line kept wrapping around the guides and the godforsaken fg knot keepts unrsvelling as well I now have no faith left in it. No matter if it gets half hitched or rizitto finish same story.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated thanks. Is it the line or is something else wrong? I use a .7mm leader and make it long enough to go onto the reel. This line wrapping has not happened before.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 02:36 pm
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EugeneC
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Mana: 
What weight lures are you throwing? Try using a short leader with the knot outside the guides. Sounds like you're not pulling your FG tight hard enough to seat the knot. You have to pull the life out of it to stop it unravelling.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 03:26 pm
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Pylstert
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Mana: 
Thanks for the feedback Eugene. Same size lures I always use and they match the rods perfectly. Perhaps the reels are too full?

I pull the knots with a knot puller till they are translucent. Still happens. I hate that knot even more than a bimini twist will just have to find something else. I prefer to have the leader on the spool for a turn or two then you don't need a casting glove and the thought of such a short flimsy leader near rocks doesn't inspire confidence.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 03:49 pm
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EugeneC
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Mana: 
Interesting...I love the FG knot, never had one fail on me. The reel needs to be filled to approximately 1mm from the lip of the spool, or if you are fishing a Shimano with a angled spool lip, you can fill it to the edge of the angle. Also try putting more (or less) power into your cast, depending on wind and other factors that might be your answer.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 04:35 pm
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Pylstert
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Mana: 
I have yet to have one that does not unravel I think it is because of the wraps over the knot on the spool. No matter how I finish it. It doesn't come lose though just the tag end unravels.

Have never had this happen with either of these setups no matter how hard I cast. Will remove a bit of line. The wind always blows here like the clappers 😁

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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 04:47 pm
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Dr halibut hoffman
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Try to position the knot at your first or second guide, like within an inch or abouts, when you make your leader, it seems to catch less like that..which guides have you got on? Also on fg..Make little blob on the end of your nylon, I do that after pulling the knot tight to translucent, then half hitch till I go over and past it, then make a little ramp with a few more and done..trim the tag tight. Slipped out once or twice in the beginning for me but not really anymore unless I dont pull the k@k out of it when cinching.

But ja..braid..its the side wind most likely causing you grief.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 05:04 pm
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JeandlH
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Mana: 
https://youtu.be/goOSynbKnJI?t=8m44s

Go and watch from 8:44, here he explains why you should use a shorter leader that doesn't go through your rods guides.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 05:19 pm
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Pylstert
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Mana: 
Thanks all very useful. It could be that this thinner line sboots too fast as explained in that video. As said it has never happened before with same long leader set up. I am definitely not fishing with such a short leader not from the rocks castin 2oz plugs and spoons or even 3oz. Also cant see how you can hold that thin line down even with a finger guard. Perhaps the answer is a stitched thick braid leader. I see now the one eye on my rod has almost ripped off. I aill be taking my multiplier with next time.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 05:38 pm
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Limpopoking
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Mana: 
Completely concur with Eugene re the FG... Brilliant knot, never had one fail. I don't rizzuto the end because it always unravels, just a few extra half hitches and I'm a firm believer in the back to back rather than all the same side. I also never cast the knot through more than just the tip guide.

What braid are you using? A few years ago I bought some Saltiga casting braid and had endless wraps and wind knots. I dumped it all and went to back to Fireline... no more problems... except I couldn't get the distance with fireline. Wind certainly plays a huge part in this though, particularly a cross wind.

So what I tend to do now is have one spool of stiffer braid and one of soft braid. For example, on one spinning outfit I have a spool filled with PP super 8 slick (waxy and slightly stiffer) and one filled with Gosen (very soft and supple). On a windy day, I will fish the Power Pro and when it's calm I'll use the Gosen.

On the few reels that I don't have a spare spool, I stick to stiffer braid.

My issue these days has been sneaky bail arm closures on my 08 Stella 18k... I've thrown quite a few poppers off recently. It's incredibly frustrating.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 05:52 pm
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Pylstert
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Mana: 
Thanks again seems the problem is throwing the knot through the eyes and the soft new braid it is Fins 40G. Seems like I will have to make another plan will look at braid leaders because I am definitely not fishing a 1m little leader. I have tried half hitches and rizuto and both with different braids. Keeps unravelling at the tag end. Just don't trust it at all anymore. I may just ditch the idea of doing heavy spinning with grinders.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 05:58 pm
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EugeneC
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Mana: 
Limpopoking wrote:


My issue these days has been sneaky bail arm closures on my 08 Stella 18k... I've thrown quite a few poppers off recently. It's incredibly frustrating.


I sometimes suffer that when I'm fatigued from lots of casting, usually toward the end of a session. If I lose concentration and my finger gets lazy, I sometimes snap the bail arm shut, super frustrating when that happens.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 05:59 pm
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Limpopoking
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Mana: 
I've never used Fins though I believe it's damn good stuff. If it's very soft braid, that could be adding to the problems. I've seen quite a few discussions on various forums concerning mono leader to braid leader to braid mainline and it certainly seems to be a good option.

When I throw heavy poppers, I use a finger glove on my index finger... I hate full gloves. It really saves having my index finger shredded after a few hours.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 06:01 pm
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EugeneC
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Mana: 
Personally I don't bother with half hitches, I do 15 wraps and finish with a rizutto, blob the end of the mainline and also the tag end of the braid. I don't like fishing long leaders, but I do in some circumstances - when fishing rocky areas like mentioned above or when targeting fish with tail scutes like trevally, that can cut braid. I don't like having a knot flying through my guides, but I haven't had any issues with my FG when it does.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2017 06:40 pm
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Vandit
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Mana: 
Limpopoking is on the ball here, as always. First thing is, wind... Either a cross or tail seems to cause some guide wraps. This should however happen minimally, like in less than 1/1000 casts. For this, theres really nothing you can do but use thicker braid.

From your complaints though I am 100% confident that is due to the fact that you are using a full length mono leader. I have tried for a while to find a fool proof method of using a full length mono leader on a medium spinning setup. Guide wraps are going to happen... frequently. Especially if you are whacking it hard for distance.

Physics is the problem, and not completely like Andre explains in the video, but the result is the same. Lets just think what happens during a cast for a minute here:
1.) At the moment of release, all the line between the lure and spool needs to be accelerated to the velocity of the lure.
2.) Now keep in mind that energy was stored in the stretchy leader up to the point of release.
3.) At the moment of release, the energy in the leader is released and the leader 'relaxes' to its free length.
4.) The tippy top of the leader is moving at the velocity of the lure.
Because the leader contracted, the back end of the leader is now moving way faster, and pulling line off the spool faster than the lure is traveling.
5.) This section of line is now slowed down rapidly by air resistance, the extra length of braid that was pulled of the spool is taken up by the lure as it flies.
7.) It is at this stage where the line is somewhat slack and may cause windknots and guide wraps.
8.) So at this stage you may be thinking: 1 So how is this different from using a leader that is only the length of the drop? and 2 Using a braid casting leader?
9.) Well... 1 Most of that process happens outside the tip of the rod. 2 Not having this problem with braid leaders led me to believe that the thicker, stiffer, and heavier mono tries to curl back into the shape it was before release (coils on the spool), flailing the braid behind like a cowboy trying to lasso your guides...
10.) The energy stored also increases with the amount of stretch and thus the length of the leader by the way.

I have given up on the dream of using a full length mono leader (I still use braid casting leaders though) and accept the risk of a cutoff, which does happen time to time. That in my opinion is more effective and less frustrating than leaving lures behind on the sea bed.

Last edited on Sat Nov 25th, 2017 06:44 pm by Vandit

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 Posted: Sun Nov 26th, 2017 11:28 am
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Pylstert
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Mana: 
Thanks everyone,

Really appreciate the feedback. I think the problem is then the mono still coiled with very soft braid chasing it and overtaking it. The mono really helps though when you have to lift lures oer rocks. If I go the braid leader route then I will have to start searching for a knot.

One knot that I have never had problems with is the pr but it is unpractical

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 Posted: Sun Nov 26th, 2017 11:47 am
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Limpopoking
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Mana: 
Or make your leader longer... Like 150m ;)

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 Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2017 07:23 am
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willo
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Mana: 
I had the same issue years ago , i used to use a full length leader as you do ..... never again .
Had the same sh!t every other cast would get rapped around the eye causing cast off's , eye damage etc . The knot just catches the guides which in turns slows down the lures , but the braid is still flying off the spool and with nothing left to pull the braid it forms the dreaded wind knot.
Almost through in the towel and stayed with my overheads instead .
I only ever throw a short leader, about 1.5 meters , with the knot outside of the guides and have never had a wind knot again ...
I have only ever lost one fish to my braid getting cut , but that was fishing for spangled emperor in very sharp corral . 1mm leader would of had the same result .

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 Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2017 11:53 am
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Pylstert
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Mana: 
Great thanks I think it is all starting to make zense now. How do you grip that thin line though? Suppose casting glove only way to go? I will try it out hopefully in this week when I get a gap. What I have done is tied a length of 65lb braid and then that to the mono. Mono is much shorter now. I may even retie and let it be oitside of eyes all together not even last 3. And if that doesnt work then I am using 150m 0.7mm mono :-)

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 Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2017 11:53 am
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Pylstert
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Mana: 
Great thanks I think it is all starting to make zense now. How do you grip that thin line though? Suppose casting glove only way to go? I will try it out hopefully in this week when I get a gap. What I have done is tied a length of 65lb braid and then that to the mono. Mono is much shorter now. I may even retie and let it be oitside of eyes all together not even last 3. And if that doesnt work then I am using 150m 0.7mm mono :-)

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 Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2017 12:55 pm
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Dr halibut hoffman
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You grip the thin line in the middle of the last pad on your finger, not in the groove, and make sure your drag won't slip in the cast a mm. Then you wont cut yourself.. Braid to braid, stitch...

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