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 Posted: Wed Feb 15th, 2017 02:36 pm
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41st Post
Dr halibut hoffman
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Once you get the tricks down it is as strong as and reliable..Otherwise it is just like all the other braid knots. But not hard to practice till perfect..Wet before, pull the crap out of it before half hitches/finish..I melt a bulb, but not necessary, just for my piece of mind, landed enough fish on unbulbed mono. If the knot slips one little bit it unravels anyway so actually the bulb is pointless if I think about. You must pull the knot till the braid welds before finishing, and wet your line proper before so the mono is not damaged, the braid must change colour and go "clearish". Then it is good. But ja, my mate can outcast me by a mile using figure8-figure8 and .55 and 1.2mm leaders, and I'm on the braid with FG, go figure! It is the caster, not the knots..

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 Posted: Wed Feb 15th, 2017 06:48 pm
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grootvis
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Mana: 
Thats better.

Once you get the knot tying down you can start to fiddle and neaten up even more so.

I always use a drop of superglue when I can , not always. It just keeps the tag from fraying and makes it just a little more resilient.

I love trying new things and seeing it work.

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 Posted: Wed Feb 15th, 2017 10:06 pm
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Raaneip
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Mana: 
grootvis, you might be interested in this one. Not exactly sure where to use it, but here goes. Maybe it is well known, I don't know.

Thread your mainline into a piece of dacron.
make a double overhand knot.
thread leader from other side and make a overhand knot.
remember to lube and tighten up.

attached image shows the result.

I did three tests with 0.55 kingfisher line 21kg.

all three broke at 20kg.

might use this to attach a spliced loop to mainline.

Attachment: IMG_4945.JPG (Downloaded 163 times)

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 Posted: Thu Feb 16th, 2017 03:58 am
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Psy
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Pylstert wrote:
Impressive knope Gert! Die FG is my nemesis, ek verpes dit

Im with you on that one...the FG has outwitted me a few times already.

Gert...No I don't know if the lighter & blob will assist with the knot. Makes some sense though.

I do recall a thread sometime back where mention of Superglue over 'Knot Sense' (to seal off the knot), was detrimental, as the superglue became too hard and brittle.

Will try track it down and add it in here.......:cool:

Enigma may well shed some light here...seems like he's chasing fish off the rocks someplace ::tight:

Nonetheless some interesting observations and techniques coming to light here.

_seal1_::slr::

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 Posted: Thu Feb 16th, 2017 04:39 am
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Psy
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_seal1_

Many links are not working any longer, this issue is frustrating when looking for past threads and information posted b4.

:?:?:?:?

However....here are a few links related to the same topic of FG knope

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=103625&forum_id=25&page=1

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=97135&forum_id=10&highlight=fg+knot

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=102319&forum_id=1

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=101703&forum_id=44



::tight:

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 Posted: Thu Feb 16th, 2017 10:55 am
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grootvis
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The Fg is a fantastic knot.

There are little things that make it easier to tie.

When plaiting the braid you have to make sure that the leader is pulled tight and straight after each turn. Additionally, I pull it straight and and at an angle away from the plait Ive just done. I.e. if ive crossed the bottom I will pull against the braid upwards which compresses and tensions the cross at the same time. And vice versa.No need for tightening after. That prevents the gaps that form.

@Raaneip.
I like your knot. However I think the section with the leader overhand will be a bigger knot than fg.

I cannot part my fg. My mainline parts first. Its a pain sometimes when you get stuck. Its really difficult to break your line.

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 Posted: Thu Feb 16th, 2017 11:47 am
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Pieter Immelman
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Mana: 
I don't use very thick leaders but I use a thin main line.

My leader is 0,6 and my main line is 0.4.

To join these two lines I use a surgeon's knot. When going gets tough or if it gets dark I use the Albright knot.

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexfishing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.png&Website=http://www.animatedknots.com#ScrollPoint

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 Posted: Thu Feb 16th, 2017 03:14 pm
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Raaneip
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Mana: 
get some more info on the knot inside dacron.
check this out:

http://www.fishingkites.co.nz/fishingknots/spectra_fishing_line.html

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 Posted: Thu Feb 16th, 2017 03:26 pm
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Raaneip
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Mana: 
the attached image shows what i am aiming at:
FG - fg knot with 80lb braid on 1.2mm leader

i splice a small loop into dacron and insert my .55 kingfisher into the dacron.

DS - double surgeon's knot.

Bris - Bristol knot to attach braid from leader to loop in dacron.

but..... now I have three knots.

what i would like to try is to tie the FG with jerry brown hollow core braid, thread the mono into the jb braid and then do the double surgeons.

anybody knows whete i can buy jerry brown braid by the meter?

Attachment: IMG_4949.JPG (Downloaded 142 times)

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 Posted: Thu Feb 16th, 2017 04:07 pm
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grootvis
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Looks good. Just dont over complicate it.

I still think an albright to Fg is just right.

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 Posted: Thu Feb 16th, 2017 06:24 pm
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Raaneip
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O.K. so i tested the FG with Albright.

Broke at 15, 16 and 15 kg.

Attachment: IMG_4951.JPG (Downloaded 140 times)

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 Posted: Thu Feb 16th, 2017 06:30 pm
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Raaneip
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I then tested the FG with surgeons ( granny) in dacron.
I tied the FG with dacron and inserted the tag into the dacron.
the FG with dacron unfortunately is huge so I would like to get my hands on hollow core braid.

broke at 19, 20 and 20 kg.

i think this is something good.

Attachment: IMG_4957.JPG (Downloaded 142 times)

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 Posted: Thu Feb 16th, 2017 09:50 pm
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grootvis
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This is wonderful. Great stuff!

Im going to look into this and play around.

How will you stop the dacron or hollow core from unravelling?

Do you tension your albright simultaneously on both tag and standing part? Reason I ask is that I cant see the mono loop or tag. The tag end is probably the most important part for me to tension correctly.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 17th, 2017 12:07 am
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Raaneip
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The idea is to prepare the leaders at home with the fg knot.
The splice and double granny is done at the fishing spot.
To insert the mainline into the hollow core is not that difficult to do if you have one of those threading needles. Got mine from the carp section of out local tackle shop for R28.

When you do the double granny you must grip both the dacron and the mono inside very hard and tighten as best you can.

yes, the fraying is still a problem i am breaking my head on. maybe cut it close to the knot - a couple of mm. i dont want to go the serving route it will be a nightmare at the water. superglue???

with my testing i am very happy with the knot but it must be practical.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 17th, 2017 03:59 am
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Psy
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I think you are re-inventing the wheel.

The FG application will be utilised when fishing with braid (am I not correct)?

I will prefer to use a windon leader, which gives a far smoother transition through the guides, of course this is a mono application.

Here is a link to locally made windon leaders

http://www.cds-angling.co.za/windons%20and%20hooks.html


http://sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=43045&forum_id=57

http://sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=30670&forum_id=57

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 Posted: Tue Feb 21st, 2017 09:30 pm
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Raaneip
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Yes, most probably reinventing the wheel but learning a lot in the process - also becoming more antifragile. nassim taleb shows in his book "antifragile" that the best inovations comes from tinkerers and not from r&d. sorry i am a tinkerer and antifragility is one of my passions.

i do make my own windons but the bimini is my nemesis and achiles heel.
i just can't tie it well. always end up with kinks and burn marks. tested many of my biminis and all of them much weaker than my mainline, which makes it fragile. in my oppinion when tied correctly it becomes too strong which makes it robust. but robustness is not antifragile. actually a too strong knot makes the whole mainline the weakest link and thus fragile. so the fg or windon splice is robust - that is good. but the link to your mainline must not be robust -it must be antifragile. in my oppinion an antifragile knot will be the one that gives, just a pound or two below the breaking strength of your mainline. then when you have to break your line you only lose your leader and terminals.

so what i have now is a spliced leader and leaving a tag af dracon into which i insert my mainline and do the double overhand knot- which breaks at 20kg out of 21kg mainline strength. that i think is antifragile.

daar kots ek darem nou 'n klomp poef uit op die screentjie.

Attachment: IMG_4986.JPG (Downloaded 105 times)

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 Posted: Tue Feb 21st, 2017 10:08 pm
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grootvis
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We all tinkerers....;)

However, we musnt lose focus of what got you there in the first place.

1. Joining a thick leader to mono mainline without the bulky knot.

2. The quickest and easiest way.

There is no knot you gonna tie that is going to be more streamlined than an FG or PR knot. Strengthwise, there is no fish in this country that will pull more than 20kg force spinning from the shore or bait other than sharks. Maybe but rarely. What reel will hold that amount of drag other than your big reels used for sharks.

It can get technical but dont lose focus on what cant be made better, if you know what I mean.

The double overhand will never be as small as the Fg. So you have to lose that somehow.

How practical will the knot be to tie or replace if needed.

All depends on what you want and how you fish.

I cannot break my knots before the mainline parts with the Fg and albright or fg to fg. I normally need to wrap around reel foot to break or cut. That means my tackle will generally fail first or the mono mainline. This is strong enough to land any fish we catch along our shores.

Dont overthink it too much.

But keep tinkering until you find what works best for you and your application.

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 Posted: Wed Feb 22nd, 2017 01:15 am
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EugeneC
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Very interesting thread, Grootvis, you're mono-braid-mono solution is genius! I use the FG a lot for lighter spinning application and for what it's worth, I suggest you blob the leader. The reason is simple: if you do the blob properly there will be no sharp edge on the end of the leader.

Raaniep, in one of your first attempts you reported the braid broke, right? The reason my well have been it got cut off on the sharp edge of the leader under tension. I learnt that lesson the hard way when I first started using the FG. It's a very simple knot once you get the hang of it, keep practicing.

To throw another spanner in the works, if you want to take it a step further, use the PR knot ;)

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 Posted: Thu Feb 23rd, 2017 02:25 am
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Raaneip
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Thanks again for all the input, advice and criticism. Grootvis 'n must set you appart for the original mono to braid to mono idea - thank you very much for sharing it.

What I settled on is the fg on the 1.2 mm leader and the rp ( or john collins knot ) on the 0.55 mainline.

Here is an interesting video on the rp knot:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RiSik3Jqs7M.

I also like the springer knot to connect tackle ( still have to test it though):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DDokeGDkAt8

Included is a image of my final connection.

Attachment: IMG_4990.JPG (Downloaded 78 times)

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 Posted: Thu Feb 23rd, 2017 05:39 pm
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grootvis
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Good one Raaneip.

Keep us posted with any new knot development. I liked your ideas and planted many seeds in my head. Its all about improving to make our fishing trips more pleasurable and keeping ourselves busy when the fish arent.
:cool:

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