SEALINE - South African Angling and Boating Community Home 
Home Recent Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register


 Moderated by: Emperor Page:    1  2  3  4  Next Page Last Page  
New Topic Reply Printer Friendly
tapered leader  Rate Topic 
 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Wed Feb 8th, 2017 01:48 am
  PM Quote Reply
1st Post
Raaneip
Member
 

Joined: Sun Nov 7th, 2010
Location: Tzaneen, South Africa
Posts: 78
Equipment: Blue Marlin Custom Built * 2, 2,3,4 ounce and 6,7,8 ...
Best Catch: Pompano 8kg Cape Vidal.
Favorite Fishing Spot: Glenmore
Boat: None
Club: None
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
got myself john holdens book on reel tuning. got the following tip from it:

"I mentioned earlier that I have no use for complicated leader knots. However, I do like tapered leaders where the material itself is thinned down over the last metre or so. What I don’t like is paying for them. I make my own crude but effective version by rubbing down the end of the leader material with wet-and-dry paper. The resulting leader knot is small, which promotes clean running."

anybody familiar with this?
what does he mean with wet-and-dry paper?

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Wed Feb 8th, 2017 02:01 am
  PM Quote Reply
2nd Post
Raaneip
Member
 

Joined: Sun Nov 7th, 2010
Location: Tzaneen, South Africa
Posts: 78
Equipment: Blue Marlin Custom Built * 2, 2,3,4 ounce and 6,7,8 ...
Best Catch: Pompano 8kg Cape Vidal.
Favorite Fishing Spot: Glenmore
Boat: None
Club: None
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
ok the great sangoma google gave me the answer to the second question:

"A flexible latex impregnated waterproof backing paper coated with abrasive. Used wet or dry for sanding paint, primer and body filler."

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Wed Feb 8th, 2017 02:15 pm
  PM Quote Reply
3rd Post
Pylstert
Sealiner
 

Joined: Fri May 4th, 2007
Location: Wagina Island
Posts: 2028
Equipment: 2nd Hand Rods, Torium reels
Best Catch: Medium Bronzie
Favorite Fishing Spot: SA coast
Boat: no
Club: N/A
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Add to your google search what fish they catch in the UK and then compare to the fish here in SA and then you will think twice about sanding down your leader, rather learn to tie a proper, small knot or buy tapered leader if you want to.

Any hardware will sell wet and dry sand paper though

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Wed Feb 8th, 2017 03:21 pm
  PM Quote Reply
4th Post
SimpleSimon
Member


Joined: Wed Oct 29th, 2014
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 229
Equipment: Whatever I can hide from the wife in the garage...
Best Catch: My next fish...
Favorite Fishing Spot: Struisbaai
Boat: Inflatable Croc
Club: 
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Does not make sense to sand down a leader and weaken it because he cannot tie a decent leader knot....




Learn to tie a decent leader knot and you will know that you have a decent chance of landing your fish.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Wed Feb 8th, 2017 04:09 pm
  PM Quote Reply
5th Post
Raaneip
Member
 

Joined: Sun Nov 7th, 2010
Location: Tzaneen, South Africa
Posts: 78
Equipment: Blue Marlin Custom Built * 2, 2,3,4 ounce and 6,7,8 ...
Best Catch: Pompano 8kg Cape Vidal.
Favorite Fishing Spot: Glenmore
Boat: None
Club: None
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
hi pylsert.

I agree with you, but actually it was unfair of me to include the first line of his quote. I think the reason for him sanding down the leader is because he doesnt want to pay for tapered leaders, which he likes to use. There are many oppinions on what knot is the best for tying on thick leaders - 1mm plus. One of the qualities I like of a descent leader knot is it's size.

When tying braid to leader I like the GT knot, in my oppinion the smallest and if tied correctly, strongest knot to use. I have experimented with the FG on mono to mono and although it tests very strong compared to my mainline the problem I have is that the half-hitches you end it with becomes undone after a couple of casts. I have tried ending the FG with many other known knots including the Yazuri but with the same effect.

Having used tapered leaders before it does give you a very small knot and strong when tied descently e.g. double uni.

So if it is possible to sand down a 1.2mm leader to say the thickness of your main line without compromising strength ( weaker than your main line) you can have a strong and small knot by using a double uni for instance.

Question is will the sanded down leader become too weak in the process.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Wed Feb 8th, 2017 05:05 pm
  PM Quote Reply
6th Post
Pylstert
Sealiner
 

Joined: Fri May 4th, 2007
Location: Wagina Island
Posts: 2028
Equipment: 2nd Hand Rods, Torium reels
Best Catch: Medium Bronzie
Favorite Fishing Spot: SA coast
Boat: no
Club: N/A
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
I won't sand it down at all. I generally use up to 1mm leaders and use the good old double line for my mainline with 2x figure 8s. This is with mono and multipliers and my rods have eyes that easily cope with these knots. For thicker leaders I think the wind on is the simplest solution. I can also think of better things to do than try and sand down a piece of fishing line, but each to their own. I reckon you can very quickly weaken a 1.2mm leader below the breaking strain of 0.55 plus mess up the knot strength by sanding it.

Grinders and braid, this is a very different story and to me it seems the likes of the FG and PR are the only real solutions if you wind your leader onto the spool. If not, you can probably use a Bob Sands without sanding the leader. Depending off course if your eyes can handle the knot.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Thu Feb 9th, 2017 12:36 am
  PM Quote Reply
7th Post
EugeneC
Sealiner


Joined: Mon Apr 22nd, 2013
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 1537
Equipment: Black Hole
Best Catch: Various
Favorite Fishing Spot: Wild waters
Boat: None
Club: 
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
If I'm not mistaken, Mr Holden's advice is related to distance casting, not fishing? Sanding down a leader to make a smaller knot is the worst idea I've ever heard of if you're going to be fishing in the ocean, as opposed to trying to make the longest cast in a casting comp.

Even if sanding down the leader would add 50m to my cast, I'd rather sacrifice the added distance and have a proper leader when I'm attached to a beast...

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Thu Feb 9th, 2017 12:55 am
  PM Quote Reply
8th Post
Psy
Sealiner


Joined: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008
Location: Langvlei Duine, Wildernis., South Africa
Posts: 6922
Equipment: Blue Marlin's/Assasins/Pentagons c/w Shimano's
Best Catch: All sorts
Favorite Fishing Spot: ><((((((ō>
Boat: ><((((((ō>
Club: <ō))))))><
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
A good all round purpose knot to use is the No-Name or Bristol Knot

Some of us here have used this knot with great success ~ it being an easy knot to tie.
Be sure of your bimini.

Attachment: images.jpg (Downloaded 543 times)

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Thu Feb 9th, 2017 02:19 am
  PM Quote Reply
9th Post
Raaneip
Member
 

Joined: Sun Nov 7th, 2010
Location: Tzaneen, South Africa
Posts: 78
Equipment: Blue Marlin Custom Built * 2, 2,3,4 ounce and 6,7,8 ...
Best Catch: Pompano 8kg Cape Vidal.
Favorite Fishing Spot: Glenmore
Boat: None
Club: None
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Thanks Psy.

If you were to buy a tapered leader what knot would you use?

EugeneC, it is true that mr holden is involved in competition casting, but he is also an avid fisherman and write many articles about practical distance casting for fishing. The part I quoted is in his section of the book of basic equipment tuning. Wheather he uses this trick for fishing leaders I don't know.

Lets forget for a moment about the sanded down leader (I still dont know for a fact that it does weaken your leader) and try the following question:

Is there a difference in strength of the whole front part of your tackle ( say the last 10 metets of your main line, your leader up to the end) between using a tapered leader and a straight leader using any knot of your choice? Or if cost was not a factor, would you prefer a tapered or straight leader?

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Thu Feb 9th, 2017 02:54 am
  PM Quote Reply
10th Post
Psy
Sealiner


Joined: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008
Location: Langvlei Duine, Wildernis., South Africa
Posts: 6922
Equipment: Blue Marlin's/Assasins/Pentagons c/w Shimano's
Best Catch: All sorts
Favorite Fishing Spot: ><((((((ō>
Boat: ><((((((ō>
Club: <ō))))))><
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
I would make a bimini and use the Bristol knot, its the quickest and easiest to tie.
It has proved itself with sliding for shark, is also quite a small knot and is quite steamlined for your rods guides too.
It has the bonus of not having any half loops to be tied,(to lock it off) thereby giving you full confidence that the knot will not deteriorate under constant rubbing through the guides.

Last edited on Thu Feb 9th, 2017 02:56 am by Psy

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Thu Feb 9th, 2017 03:00 am
  PM Quote Reply
11th Post
Psy
Sealiner


Joined: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008
Location: Langvlei Duine, Wildernis., South Africa
Posts: 6922
Equipment: Blue Marlin's/Assasins/Pentagons c/w Shimano's
Best Catch: All sorts
Favorite Fishing Spot: ><((((((ō>
Boat: ><((((((ō>
Club: <ō))))))><
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
With regards to the second part of your post...

Here's what T Line have to say:

http://www.tline.co.za/leaderlinegame.htm

I think what they are aiming at is that with a tapered leader, you still have the strength but you have some more flexibility at the end allowing for lots of movement, if that's at all necessary?

:?

::tight:

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Mon Feb 13th, 2017 12:53 am
  PM Quote Reply
12th Post
Raaneip
Member
 

Joined: Sun Nov 7th, 2010
Location: Tzaneen, South Africa
Posts: 78
Equipment: Blue Marlin Custom Built * 2, 2,3,4 ounce and 6,7,8 ...
Best Catch: Pompano 8kg Cape Vidal.
Favorite Fishing Spot: Glenmore
Boat: None
Club: None
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
I asked mr Holden the question:

a Quick question. In your reel book you say that you use wet and dry paper to sand the one end of your leader down. Do you use this for fishing or only for casting over grass.

Is it practical to do this on say 1.2 mm leader to connect to 0.55 mainline? These are the typical sizes we use for shark fishing in South-Africa, sometimes even bigger.

Does the process substantially weaken the leader and what influence does it have on the knot strength?


Thanks for your reply

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Mon Feb 13th, 2017 12:54 am
  PM Quote Reply
13th Post
Raaneip
Member
 

Joined: Sun Nov 7th, 2010
Location: Tzaneen, South Africa
Posts: 78
Equipment: Blue Marlin Custom Built * 2, 2,3,4 ounce and 6,7,8 ...
Best Catch: Pompano 8kg Cape Vidal.
Favorite Fishing Spot: Glenmore
Boat: None
Club: None
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
and his reply:

Hello Gert,
Sanding down the line works fine with the diameters of leader and mainline you mention. The basic idea is to make the leader taper to the same diameter as the mainline. The taper needs to be about 100mm long, but that isn't critical. Test the knot breaking strain to see that the brand of leader is up to the job. Sometimes you need to change to another make. Idea works best with basic mono. The exotic stuff can be difficult to sand down. Use wet and dry paper with a drop of water. Regards, John

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Mon Feb 13th, 2017 01:32 am
  PM Quote Reply
14th Post
Psy
Sealiner


Joined: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008
Location: Langvlei Duine, Wildernis., South Africa
Posts: 6922
Equipment: Blue Marlin's/Assasins/Pentagons c/w Shimano's
Best Catch: All sorts
Favorite Fishing Spot: ><((((((ō>
Boat: ><((((((ō>
Club: <ō))))))><
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Gert

I doubt you will be able to sand down a leader uniformly, ie; you will have some part of it irregular and thickness is detrimental to its strength!

For what its worth buy the T line tapered leaders!




:fbash

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Mon Feb 13th, 2017 11:56 am
  PM Quote Reply
15th Post
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator


Joined: Wed Sep 16th, 2009
Location: Cape, South Africa
Posts: 2605
Equipment: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...
Best Catch: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...145cm FL Leervis released (Shore), 80kg+ yellowfin (Boat). 83cm Cracker. ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: Kranse en diepsee!
Boat: 15' Skicraft cat.Canoe. Crew on Buttcats.
Club: Ike jime,no club
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
My Gallery: 
I'm a novice when it comes to the mono but unless distance casting as the guys above said I see no point..For me the beauty of mono is the simple and quick joining that seems to retain most of line strength if done properly, figure 8 to figure 8, double your .55mm and make 4 turns, then 3 turns with 1.2mm leader. We fish mostly the same line spinning and if you wet lekker and pull the crap out of the knot to make sure it is as tight as its going to get, and trim your tags very tight, it goes through your guides with no issue. These knots get cast all day long, cast after cast, spinning..They will only get changed out when the leader is chaffed from landing fish and you can pull on the join as hard as you can pull. Got some of my biggest fish on this simple join including my biggest tuna and other fish I had to pull far harder.

I see some guys getting fancy here with bimini's etc, but most big fish get wrestled out on figure8-figure8..double mainline and 4turns and 3 turns on 1.2mm as said..

The only way to know is to go though..so make some tapered leaders, buy some from t line too..Then tie up different joins and throw them and pull them against a tree against each other and let us know what the story is ;)

Last edited on Mon Feb 13th, 2017 11:57 am by Dr halibut hoffman

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Mon Feb 13th, 2017 03:46 pm
  PM Quote Reply
16th Post
grootvis
Sealiner
 

Joined: Sat Jul 12th, 2008
Location: All Over...
Posts: 2699
Equipment: alot
Best Catch: Big fish
Favorite Fishing Spot: South African coast
Boat: yip
Club: 
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Heres my solution to the problem.

I use .55 mainline. I use a 1mm flourocarbon leader. No matter what knot you use, you are sitting with a bulky knot going through the guides which will deteriorate quicker from abrasion.

In order for me to use a 1mm leader to thicker mainline with hardly a knot at all.....

Tie a 600mm or shorter section of braid to your mainline using either, an FG or albright. Now you have hardly any knot. Then FG your braid section to the 1mm flouro. Voila!

You have .55 mainline connected to a 1mm flouro leader without any bulky knot. Hardly even hear it going through the guides. Ive been using this set up most of the season and yet to change out the leader. Albeit its due to change because it hasnt been changed for a while.

Problem with a bulky knot, when you have a fish on the end of your line, when you need to get that knot through your tip guide, under tension you end up sitting with the knot against your guide and you cannot reel! You have to dip your rod tip or slacken off to get it through, I dont want that!

Happy fishing!:)

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Mon Feb 13th, 2017 03:59 pm
  PM Quote Reply
17th Post
Pylstert
Sealiner
 

Joined: Fri May 4th, 2007
Location: Wagina Island
Posts: 2028
Equipment: 2nd Hand Rods, Torium reels
Best Catch: Medium Bronzie
Favorite Fishing Spot: SA coast
Boat: no
Club: N/A
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
sounds a heck of a lot better than sanding your leader, Gert I hope you are not going to use the sanded leader on sharks or Kingfish, unless you make use of what GV suggests, you should be doubling your mainline to maintain knot strength, using single line and then sanding down the leader to the same diameter as the main line is going to result in a pretty weak knot. Guaranteed - most mono knots used for joining lines drop down to 80% or less of the original breaking strain, you can avoid this by doubling your main line with a bimini or spider hitch, bu if you are going to sand down the leader, you automatically lose this advantage

Last edited on Mon Feb 13th, 2017 04:02 pm by Pylstert

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Mon Feb 13th, 2017 04:59 pm
  PM Quote Reply
18th Post
Raaneip
Member
 

Joined: Sun Nov 7th, 2010
Location: Tzaneen, South Africa
Posts: 78
Equipment: Blue Marlin Custom Built * 2, 2,3,4 ounce and 6,7,8 ...
Best Catch: Pompano 8kg Cape Vidal.
Favorite Fishing Spot: Glenmore
Boat: None
Club: None
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
thanks for all the input and advice, including the criticism. I am now convinced that it is not a worthwhile pursuit.

grootvis, I really like your idea, thanks for sharing.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Mon Feb 13th, 2017 05:26 pm
  PM Quote Reply
19th Post
grootvis
Sealiner
 

Joined: Sat Jul 12th, 2008
Location: All Over...
Posts: 2699
Equipment: alot
Best Catch: Big fish
Favorite Fishing Spot: South African coast
Boat: yip
Club: 
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Its all about finding solutions to problems. Glad to help anytime. Heres a pic of the albright to braid. Try match the braid to diameter of mainline, but its not critical.
Second pic is the FG to leader. As you can see the knots are really super streamlined and easy to tie.

I keep a few braid to flouro leader sections in my bag in case of break offs with the braid Fg to leader. When i need to replace at the water I only have to connect with an albright, simple and quick.

Attachment: 20170213_142007.jpg (Downloaded 425 times)

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Mon Feb 13th, 2017 05:27 pm
  PM Quote Reply
20th Post
grootvis
Sealiner
 

Joined: Sat Jul 12th, 2008
Location: All Over...
Posts: 2699
Equipment: alot
Best Catch: Big fish
Favorite Fishing Spot: South African coast
Boat: yip
Club: 
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Fg to leader.

Attachment: 20170213_142042.jpg (Downloaded 424 times)

Back To Top PM Quote Reply


Current time is 12:12 am Page:    1  2  3  4  Next Page Last Page    
SEALINE - South African Angling and Boating Community > General Angling Topics > Sealine - F.A.Q's and Articles > Traces and Rigs > tapered leader Top